What does “improperly” mean? That it is improper to fill in moves after a flag fall? Admittedly it’s been awhile since I officiated at a tournament, but I thought a player could still catch his score sheet up on his own time.
Or, does “improperly” mean that the moves must be the correct moves, and not “made up” ones?
The rest of 13C covers this. After you have called a flag fall (and stopped the clock presumably) it is not “your own time”. As far as I’m concerned, players can fill in moves “properly” until either player points out that the flag has fallen (in non-sudden death situations). Please see discussion and disagreement above.
Alex Relyea
I would say that “improperly” adds no legal meaning to 13C4. The rule is the same with or without that word. However, it has rhetorical meaning, which is this: “Now we are going to further discuss filling in missing moves after the claim, but such discussion still doesn’t mean that it is ever okay”. In fact, I would go further and say that 13C4 is not a “rule” at all, but “guidance” in the application of 13C3. My feeling is that 13C3 is a rule, 13C4 is not a rule.
There’s a lot of that in the USCF rulebook. The problem with such “rules” is that words pack a lot of meaning. Every word can be either understood or misunderstood. Every additional word is potentially clarifying and an additional opportunity for misunderstanding. This problem is real, and it just happened with the word “improperly”.
At some point you have to stop writing words and let the rules stand on their own. Paradoxically, that means they don’t stand on their own. Not every rule can be explained by the rules. Not every interpretation of the rules can be made by pointing to some other rule. Not every interpretation or “guidance” can be included in the rulebook.
13C4 is okay though. The TD is going to have a difficult time in a lot of complete scoresheet situations. A little guidance is okay.
Obviously the moves would have to be filled in before the clock is stopped, duh.
I think you have a reasonable case that Black’s 29th move could not have been “completed” under the rules, and if that half-move is the only thing counting as a 4th missing move-pair, it should not prevent the claim.
However we do get into even deeper problems when we grant TDs the ability to “discern the intent” of the rules. That’s a function for appellate courts, not chess tournament officials. The rules have grown progressively more detailed for just that reason - although not every circumstance can be foreseen, they are amended regularly to cover the problems which have arisen in practice since the last revision.
If a rule change is needed to ensure this catch-22 doesn’t happen again, I would support it.
I am frankly shocked that anyone thinks anything I say is reasonable.
Thanks for the vote, which now stands at 4-1 against – counting the TD and special TD and not counting me. To avoid spoiling the moment, I’ll refrain from contradicting what you wrote next.
Have you read the rulebook?
Have you?
getting personal, getting personal. Ken, your one-liners can be taken in different ways.
Yes.
I meant to call out both parties in this. Tim and Ken, we can do better.
Ditto.
Fine. Can you point to a rule that supports your opinion that a player who calls his own flag has resigned?
I never stated that such a rule exists.
Are you aware of the rule that directly CONTRADICTS your opinion?
So?
13C2. Player may call own flag for protection in non-sudden death.
A player may call attention to the fall of his or her own flag. This initiates the time forfeiture procedure, the same as if the opponent had made a claim. A player will likely exercise this option in order to make it clear that any moves the opponent may subsequently fill in or correct on the scoresheet are invalid for the purpose of having an adequate score. See also 13C3, Filling in moves with flag down.
TD TIP: This rule was designed to protect the player who is short of time, in a non-sudden death time control, from an opponent, who has plenty of time to write down moves as they are being made, who instead “blitzes” or rushes, move after move without filling in a scoresheet contrary to 15A, Manner of keeping score.