Gee, Condor, you’re the one who originally posted the link to the Scid report calling it “quite interesting”. Anyone with half a brain can see the statistics there are useless, so I picked out a fun fact instead. Guess my mistake was that after I wrote “Gotta love statistics”, I didn’t put .
Another fun fact – 2 Nc3 also scores better than 2 exf5. Why didn’t I notice that before?
Actually, there is a whole range of white first moves where 2 e4 is a reasonable response to 1…f5, so of course those moves would also be “playable” on the second move after 1e4 f5: 1 Nf3 f5 2 e4!? is the Pirc-Lisitsin Gambit, I know some English players who favor 1 c4 f5 2 e4!?. I once played, as white in a tournament game, 1 c3 f5 2 e4!?. I don’t have in my possession any books on 1 Nc3, but I am sure they would give 1… f5(?) 2 e4!.
After 1 e4 f5, the best move is undoubtedly 2 exf5. The worst move is 2 Qg4. Just about any other white second move would be playable. Even the truly awful 2 g4 might be entertaining. The reason I give 2 e5 an exclamation mark is because it completely takes the fun out of the Fred for black, while still retaining a small advantage for white.
Yeah, if you’d put a or then I would know for sure you were kidding. Sometimes though, people who are mathematically challenged can still play excellent chess and vice versa. Although I did find that 2.exf was the only stat that was worth paying any attention since it was used in 2/3 of the games. That tells me, that all or nearly all efforts in analyzing this line should be there - 1.e4 f5 2.exf.
I also wanted to point out one of the problems with using stats that can ruin the whole thing is not having the Elo rating of the participants. Normally, when I or others make “opening books” for chess engines, we restrict the games we use to minimum Elo thresholds.
What I did find interesting on the link, was the wealth of material analyzed from an 80 game data set, along with history and complete games, etc.
Last night I set up a lot of possible variations after 1.e4 f5 and staying within the Fred opening parameters, i.e. not transposing to a different opening, and could find that White keeps a slight edge no matter which way he plays practically. In nearly all cases, the variations ran the gamut from slightly less than a pawn advantage to simple mates. I used Rybka 3 and Bookup for the analysis. I set the analysis to 10 minutes per position.
Well this has been a bit of fun taking a look at this opening. Maybe it really should be called “Dead Fred”. Although I think it would be quite a stunner in a blitz game if White doesn’t know the Black player uses this opening.
Do you have any of those games that you would share with us? I am finding this opening rather fascinating and for no particular reason that I can think of. Right now I’m using Bookup and Rybka 3 to explore possibilities. There’s a line with sub-variations where the Black King runs to the Queenside, not by castling either. It made me think of a game of one the old world champions, Russian, that did something like this and won. Just can’t remember his name.
I’m thinking that once I get done with an “opening book” then I will set up Fritz with several of my best engines and let them run a round robin G30 tourney.
I’ve won games as black that began 1.e4 f5 2.exf5 Kf7!! 3.Resigns!!! Ok that’s a slight exaggeration :mrgreen: But I did in fact win! Yes I’ve also lost a fair share too
I just finished compiling together the weekly files from The Week in Chess between 2003-2008. Just for the fun of it I looked up the Fred. 7 games listed, 4-3-0. While ratings weren’t listed for most players, there were a few involving 1800/1900 ELO players.
Maybe the “buhwha?” factor has something going for it, too. :mrgreen:
(Edited to Add: In said database, the record for the Damiano is 11-0-3. )
I had a spell as a C and B player when I played the Orangutan 1. b4. It has potential too. But I was having trouble getting an advantage against a fair number of weaker opponents. Then I scrapped the simian and played something more normal, and seemed to beat the same people quickly who had made me work so hard after I “surprised” them with the Orangutan.
Never went back. There’s a reason some openings are not preferred. Did you notice that in the games you posted above, you are 0-2 in the Fred and 1.5 - .5 out of it?
Yes, when your king gets mated on h8, if it can move to i9 (the square up and to the right of h8 on a chessboard diagram) that could be the stroke of genius that justifies this opening.
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Yeah, if you’d put a 
or 