Kind of a pointless demonstration as both formats are essentially the same until you have 6 seconds left. When the first countdown went to 0 and the flags fell, it would have been very different if they had stopped them with 5 seconds. Delay would have said 5 and been 10 before losing, Bronstein would have said 6 and been only six seconds before losing.
I’m very confused by the last sentence. Why would the Bronstein clock have shown 6 seconds remaining? If there were 5 seconds “base time” remaining, would the Bronstein clock not have shown 10 seconds after the clock was pressed?
Also, I’m a bit confused by the example you gave of having 13 seconds left on the clock in both delay and Bronstein mode. But if I had to guess, I would say you are pointing out that players are conditioned to think “I really have five ‘hidden’ seconds, so 13 seconds doesn’t really mean 13 seconds.” In that sense, yes, I would agree that someone who is not used to Bronstein mode could be surprised when the clock starts subtracting time immediately.
Generally, while I like the motivation behind the FIDE wording that the clock shows the time remaining for the player to complete the move, it troubles me that that wording can be read as mandating the use of clock press counters in a game with multiple time controls.
Hi Ken,
The Bronstein example showed how much time remained after they punched the clock. It will always be at least 6 seconds. If someone then uses six seconds they forfeit. If they use 5 seconds, they get those back and it goes back to 6 seconds. If they use 2-3-4 seconds, they get back 2-3-4 seconds to return to 6 seconds so the Bronstein will never show less 6 seconds after moving. I think you would have to agree though, that a Delay clock showing 13 seconds when it starts has 18 seconds before losing on time, and a Bronstein clock showing 13 seconds has only 13 seconds before they forfeit.
Starting with 13 seconds was just a random pick, could have been more or less but wanted to show the difference between the formats with a few seconds left.
No, I wanted to smoke you out of your cozy hobbit-hole to share the time-crunch comparison tables between Bronstein and delay. Every time this comes up, it’s amazing how many guys who have been around a long time have not seen it before.
Looking forward to watching experienced big-time TDs hash this out. For real. I like the feel of Bronstein, but since FIDE jumped on increment and USCF jumped on straight delay, it seems Bronstein is left out in the woods, all alone. (Maybe that’s why I like the feel of it.)
The only time I set my Chronos to Bronstein/Adagio mode, it was the USATE at which I vowed to try every legal way to set that clock for the announced time control. I expected my opponent to balk; he never noticed…
Having seen a special on a man who completely replicated Frodo/Bilbo’s Hobbitt Hole from LOTR, I would be so lucky to have such a hobbit hole… But, having been smoked out, I can only observe that lost, alone, in the middle of the woods is the best place for a Bronstein Clock. And if it is on the original grey Saitek, any old sledgehammer laying around would be nice 
Suppose you have 4 seconds of main thinking time left, and the delay is 5 seconds.
Imagine 4 clocks.
Clock 1 uses simple delay, and only displays main thinking time. It shows 4 seconds for the first 5 seconds of your move, then the 4 seconds starts decrementing.
Clock 2 uses simple delay, and shows the main thinking time when your clock is not running. When your clock starts, it shows the delay time until that is gone, then shows main thinking time. So in this example, it would show 4 while your opponent is still on the move, then show 5 counting down, and when that countdown completes it would show 4 counting down.
Clock 3 uses simple delay, shows both main thinking time and delay time, so it has two time displays per side.
Clock 4 uses Bronstein and was started set to main thinking time plus delay. It shows 9 seconds when your opponent is still on the move, and then 9 seconds counting down when it is your turn. After your move, it adds 5 seconds to your remaining main thinking time and displays the result.
Based on what I’ve read here and elsewhere, the impression I get is that most clocks with simple delay do it like clocks 1 or 2. I haven’t heard of any that do it like clock 3.
Note that for all 4 clocks, the timekeeping is identical. On all 4, you have 9 seconds to make your move, and making your move in 5 or less seconds preserves all your time. Making your move in more than 5 seconds cuts your time for future moves by the amount you went over 5 seconds. The only difference between the 3 simple delay clocks and the Bronstein clock is how this identical timekeeping is displayed.
This is key. The timekeeping is identical–it is ONLY a display difference.
With clock 1, if I glance at the clock while on the move all I’m told is the main thinking time remaining. If that is still 4 seconds, then all I know is that I have somewhere between 4 and 9 seconds to make my move.
With clock 2, if I glance at the clock while on the move and see that is says 4 seconds, that could mean I have 4 seconds left to make my move or 8 seconds left to make my move, depending on whether or not I’ve used up the delay for this turn.
With clock 4, if I glance at the clock while on the move and see that it says 4 seconds, I have 4 seconds left to make my move.
In severe time pressure, I’d find clock 4 much preferable to clocks 1 or 2.
At longer delays, such as 10 seconds, clock 1 seems particularly annoying to me. When you have used all but a second or so of your main time, you are spending 90+% of your time in delay time, and clock 1 does not visibly count down delay time. You are essentially playing with a jack in the box timer at that point–the clock will not help you at all anticipate flag fall.
–Tim Smith
The excalibur / game-time clock display has the base time of each player on each side and another place in the bottom of the center shows the delay time left. So it is an example of clock 3.
Another example of clock 3 would be some modes on the Chronos.
CH-A1 works fine for a single time control of up to 99:59 and a delay of up to 9 seconds.
Above that, you can use the AN-n modes (n is the number of time controls). The delay is shown as a countdown digit (or two digits if the delay is greater than 9 seconds), alongside a (possibly abbreviated) main time display. After the delay counts down to zero, only the main time (no longer abbreviated) is displayed.
For example, with a 5-second delay:
- If the remaining main time is 1:23:45, the display shows 5 - 1:23 until the 5 counts down to zero, at which time the display shows 1:23:45.
- When the main time drops below 1 hour, the display shows 5 - 59:59 (main time is no longer abbreviated), or just 59:59 after the delay countdown.
Or, with a 20-second delay:
- If the remaining main time is 1:23:45, the display shows 20 - 1:23 until the 20 counts down to zero, then 1:23:45.
- When the main time drops below 1 hour, the display shows 20 - 0:59 until the delay gets down below 10 seconds, then 9 - 59:59.
- When the main time drops below 10 minutes, the display shows 20 - 9:59.
All of the above is for current Chronos models, which I don’t have, so somebody please check this out for me. On the older models with a switch on the bottom (such as mine), use CH-A2 instead of CH-A1, and I’d suggest DL-2B (better than DL-2A) in place of AN-n.
I agree that clock 3 is preferable to clocks 1 and 2 for those who prefer “straight” delay. All the confusion with the different displays no doubt leads some players to prefer clock 4 with its pure Bronstein mode.
Bill Smythe
My Chronos is relatively old (purchased before 2000) but does not have a switch on the bottom and has AN modes, although only two (instead of the four listed in the online manual I could find).
Unfortunately, it seems that its AN-1 corresponds to the current manual’s AN-1A (single time control, maximum of 9:59) and its AN-2 corresponds to the current manual’s AN-1 (single time control, maximum time of 9:59:59), with no option for multiple time controls.
As you mentioned, the regular “andante” delay modes (CH-A1 etc.) only allow a delay of up to 9 seconds.
This leaves me with the DL modes, of which I guess I’ll use DL-SD2 since I dislike move counters. All the DL modes have the (pretty annoying) disadvantage that the delay countdown is not displayed.
Is it worth asking the TD of a CCA event if it is acceptable to play with a 9-second delay (enabling the use of CH-A2, which displays the delay countdown) instead of a 10-second delay if both players agree to it? If so I’ll program both modes into my clock and see what my opponents think. Maybe that’s just asking for trouble though (e.g., opponent claims afterward that he didn’t agree to it or didn’t understand what I was proposing).
I don’t think so. It is a bad idea to have a different time control for one player who prefers to use a different clock setting.
By way of example, when I run a tournament with 30 second increment, I require the blue Saiteks to be used as analog clocks (with the analog time control) rather than let them use 30 second delay. I also make sure both players understand this. I think that’s somewhat analogous.
Alex Relyea
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my response to your question would be an immediate “no”.
Fair enough! I’ll either use the 10-second delay mode that doesn’t display the delay countdown, or use my opponent’s clock if his can.
Finally something that my (admittedly old) Chronos can’t handle 
The first switchless models were, in my opinion, inferior to previous models with a switch on the bottom. But this inferiority was largely corrected within a year or two, when some features that had been eliminated were restored.
On my old model with a switch on the bottom, I really, really like mode DL-2B (a little-known resource, greatly preferable to DL-2A) for tournaments played with 1 or 2 time controls and a delay of up to 9 seconds. (For 1 time control simply set the 2nd control to 0:00:00.)
In mode DL-2B, the main time is displayed fully, i.e. h:mm:ss. The delay time is displayed as a flashing hyphen until the main time drops below 1 hour, at which time the delay time is displayed as a digit, e.g. 5 - 59:59. Thus the delay is displayed as a digit exactly when it most needs to be, and the main time is displayed fully at all times.
Bill Smythe
It seems like there are a lot of differences between digital clocks. For instance, here are three questions that have different answers for different clocks.
• In delay mode, does it show just the main time, the sum of main plus delay, delay until that runs out then main, or does it show both delay and main simultaneously?
• In, say, a 40/90 G/30 game, does it use a move counter and add 30 minutes after move 40, or does it not add the 30 until the time from the first period reaches 0?
• How do you pause the clock if you need to summon a director for a ruling on a game issue? For most I’ve seen, this is pretty obvious. You hit the pause button. However, on the Excalibur GameTime II, you are supposed to level the plungers like you do on an analog clock. The pause switch is NOT to be used for stopping the clock to summon a director, according to the manual. It is for stopping to change game options.
How do people deal with this when confronted with a clock they have never used before? Do you ask to delay the start of the game while the clock owner explains the relevant details of his clock?
Another question: I’ve downloaded and read the manuals for several popular clocks and, frankly, many of these manuals are terrible. For several of them, I would not be able to answer the above questions given the manual for the clock. It would take experimenting with the clock. Same for setting the clock. I have no confidence that some random opponent I do not know actually knows how to set his clock.
I’d like to see some kind of clock registration program to make it easier to deal with the plethora of digital clocks that are available.
To register a clock, the manufacturer would simply have to submit a “tournament reference sheet” for the clock to the USCF. The reference sheet would have a standardized layout so it is easy to navigate, and would concisely show how to set the modes that are relevant to most USCF tournaments, and how to understand the display and time control transitions, and how to stop the clock to summon an arbiter, and how to make the changes if the arbiter says to adjust the time or move counter. Things not necessary for USCF play would not be described on the reference sheet–it is just for USCF tournament play. These reference sheets would be downloadable from the USCF.
Non-registered clocks would still be legal, or course, but registered clocks accompanied by their reference sheets would be the most preferred clock.
–Tim Smith
Lots of luck with that one. As some famous person once said (or maybe it was me), standardization is the bane of improvement. With several manufacturers all contributing good ideas (as well as a few not-so-good ones), it’ll be a long time, perhaps forever, before everything can be standardized, and when / if it is standardized, some nice features will be lost. For better or for worse, forcing all manufacturers to fill out the same form ain’t gonna happen.
Some of your questions have different answers not only for different manufacturers, but also for different modes within the same clock. The Chronos is the best example of this:
- You can choose between Bronstein or “straight” delay. With the latter choice, in some modes delay time is displayed as a digit, in other modes not.
- With two controls, time is added either at the appropriate move number or when the first control runs out, depending on whether or not the clock is set to display the move count.
- etc etc etc.
So, while I sympathize with your desire to standardize, realistically it will never come to be.
If you’re playing with an unfamiliar clock, you should feel free to ask the opponent, before the game, how to pause the clock if it becomes necessary to fetch a TD. Sometimes my opponent may ask me an additional question or two, in which case I’m likely to reply that I have the move counter turned on but I’d be happy to turn it off if he prefers. (Let’s be accommodating.)
Bill Smythe
Just to be clear, note that I was not suggesting that clock functionality or behavior be standardized. I agree that this would impede improvement.
I was just suggesting that there be a standard for documenting the functionality and behavior that is relevant to USCF tournaments. I don’t think that would impede improvement, or even provide a measurable burden on the clock makers.
–Tim Smith
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Some fully programmable pad computers are now much cheaper than a hard-wired Chronos chess clock: $50 vs $199 in some comparisons. A pad computer can do vastly more things than a Chronos can do. It’s just that the Chronos comes in a better case for the role of chess/game clock.
It is just a matter of desire - any of these chess clock companies can manufacture a USB enabled device with a touch screen, one that can download an XML file of time control specification. Then a chess clock app would be relatively trivial to code.
The USCF should anoint and sanction one XML design (elements, attributes) that all such chess clocks (or general game clocks) should understand — in addition to whatever else the manufacturers want their clocks to also understand. The design needs to be very flexible and forward thinking.
It is crucial that the USCF do this before the first new style clock manufacturer does.
My guess is different than Bill’s guess: I believe that such declarative programming of chess / game clocks is inevitable. The future is a long time; and looking back just a couple decades ago the changes have been enormous. More changes are yet to come than we have so far seen in all the past combined.
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But you ARE famous.
It might be a simple matter for USCF to develop a standardized sheet for manufacturers to fill out and submit. Getting all the manufacturers to actually fill it out, though, would be a HUGE if, I believe.
It might work better if we forum rats would do the job ourselves. To a large extent we’re already doing that.
Anybody who owns a clock (Chronos, DGT, GameTime, Saitek, etc) could contribute his knowledge. Somebody (perhaps “tzs”?) could appoint himself / herself as the Grand Collector, Examiner, and Editor of all these contributions, and come out with a single comprehensive document.
Bill Smythe
What about us old timers that still use an analog clock? Losing the 5 seconds delay never bothered me (60 moves X 5 seconds= another 3 minutes), but the new 10 second delay might be a significant advantage for some players. Could USCF Rules allow a longer time control for analog clock users? It still sells them and some old fossils like me have a very, very difficult time setting time delay clocks.