10 second delay

Running Chess Tournaments
61

No, USCF rules won’t allow a longer time control for analog clocks. This was made clear at Irvine when even the (deprecated) option was taken out of the rule book. However, tournament organizers are allowed to offer a different time control if they announce it in all advance publicity. For example, my next tournament has a time control of 40/90, SD/30 + 30 seconds increment, analog clocks play 40/90, SD/60. Note that analog clocks are much deprecated in this type of time control and your opponent always (before his first move) has the right to replace the clock with a properly functioning increment clock.

Alex Relyea

62

I just directed a CCA event this past weekend, which used the 10 second delay (40/110, SD/30 +10s delay was the main time control) and was my first experience with it. Here are the settings I used for clocks I programmed:

Chronos: Used the DL-SD2, without a move counter. I wanted to find a setting that showed the delay countdown but either it doesn’t have one or apparently I don’t know the clock well enough to do so. People managed with the setting I chose.

Chronos Mini: Used TN-2 and liked that the delay countdown was shown numerically as oppose to just flashing dashes like on the bigger Chronos.

Analog : The one or two analog clocks in use were not given any extra time to compensate for the delay. I also had one game where the players didn’t add or subtract (I prefer them to add so I know they are in the 2nd time control) the 30 minutes after move 40 and so theoretically the flag would have fallen at 6:30.

Excalibur: I set these using a user defined mode but it took a couple of minutes per clock to set up. I also set them with the move counter as I ran into an issue with a clock that I tried setting without the move counter where it didn’t add the 30 minutes when the flag fell. Once bitten, twice shy.

Saitek Competition (Blue): Used 2D, which worked well. The only things I don’t like is that when you are programming it, the message says “time added” instead of delay. It doesn’t add extra time, e.g. increment, it is indeed a delay. I also don’t like the display switching completely over to the delay countdown before it switches back to the main time you have remaining.

Saitek Pro (Grey): Used 7A and programmed it manually. Also see notes for Saitek Competition above.

DGT NA: Used preset 23 and manually programmed time control.

DGT 2010: Used preset 25 and manually programmed time control.

DGT XL: Used 00 and manually programmed time control. This clock used Bronstein mode and in both the games where this clock was used there was an issue with one of the players not understanding how Bronstein worked the delay and they thought the clock was not doing it correctly.

DGT Easy Game Time (and Pro version): This clock can only do one time control but when it is the only thing the players had I let them use it and was planning to make an adjustment on move 41. However, that issue was never brought to my attention and it was only seen in the lowest section.

ZMF II: Never had seen one of these before and so when I was asked to set it I couldn’t figure it out. I asked the player if he had a manual and amazingly he was able to produce one after a couple of minutes. It took a little working out, even with the manual, but eventually I was able to get this to produce the time control for the event with the 10 second delay.

There were various questions throughout the event as to why 30 minutes wasn’t added automatically after black’s 40th move. This, of course, was always related to clocks set without move counters and so folks were happy with a brief explanation and cheerfully watched their clocks get to zero then add the 30 minutes.

In terms of the 10 second delay, I personally received no complaints about the use of it and just a handful of questions as to why a 10 second delay was used instead of the usual 5 second delay. I directed all those folks to contact the organizer (sorry Bill!).

63

I really like increment time controls, and increment clocks are now the standard.

(BTW, that last sentence needs to be fixed.)

64

Well…

(Never mind the typos in the rule, we know what they mean.)

So the rules WILL allow it if a delay/increment clock is not available, but NOT if the old-timers just want to use their old timers.

65

On Chronos models sufficiently new to not have a switch on the bottom, try the AN modes, like AN-2.

IMHO this is a serious drawback of both Saitek models. And the longer the delay, the more serious it is. If these clocks also have Bronstein mode, you might want to use it instead.

Once understood, Bronstein works fine, and some may even prefer it to straight delay, largely because of the various problems you encountered.

This is the problem with not using the move counter. Of course, there are problems with using the move counter, too.

Bill Smythe

66

Yes, of course it should say:

However, that’s not a good rule, IMHO. A director should be given wide latitude to substitute a proper clock (e.g. increment-capable, delay-capable, etc, depending on the tournament) for a sub-standard clock at any time during the game, with or without a request from either of the players.

Bill Smythe

67

This is an atrocious TD tip, if you ask me. A player should not be rewarded with an entire extra 30 minutes as a reward for furnishing a clock not capable of a 30-second increment.

Much better would be one-half minute (or maybe even less) for each second of increment.

Or better still, don’t use the variant at all. Make the players play without the increment and without added main time, if they insist on furnishing obsolete equipment.

Bill Smythe

68

Put those players in a separate room, and tell them instead of hitting the clock, the player on the move should stop the clock, and then count out loud “a thousand one, a thousand two, a thousand three…” to count out the delay, then complete pressing the clock, unless the other player has moved, in which case the other player starts the delay count. :smiling_imp:

The Easy Game Timer is even more limited than that. Not only does it only do one time control, it does not support delay or increment. All it has is single sudden death, or fixed time per move, or a count up mode that starts at 0:00 and tracks total time used per player.

The Pro adds delay and increment options for the sudden death mode.

This raises a question: both of these clocks are available from USCFSales.com, along with the DGT 960 which supports the exact same set of modes as the Easy Game Timer Pro.

I find it a bit troubling that one can go to the USCF sales site and buy a digital clock that has trouble with time controls commonly used in many USCF tournaments. Shouldn’t there be some verbiage there noting this and suggesting a more capable clock for those who intend tournament play?

When buying a chess set from USCF, there is at least some guidance, in that there is a separate section called “Tournament Chess Sets” and almost everything you find in that section appears to have no issues (except for the “build your own combo” item, because it has problematic clocks among the options). Perhaps the site needs a “Tournament Clocks” section, too?

–Tim Smith

69

Though note that on some Chronos models without a switch (e.g., mine), the AN modes are differently numbered and don’t have a good DL-SD2 equivalent.

The manual’s AN-1 and AN-1A correspond to my clock’s AN-2 and AN-1 respectively (I know, right?) and my clock has nothing to correspond to the manual’s AN-2 or AN-3. So it would seem that the check to make is whether the clock has four AN modes (1, 1A, 2, and 3), rather than two (1 and 2). If it does, then AN-2 is cool.

At the same tournament I had my clock set to DL-SD2 and no one complained about the lack of displayed countdown. (Nobody came close to running out of time, though.) There were also a few people who didn’t notice that the delay was 10 instead of 5 until round 3 or so, despite Chris’s frequent announcements.

70

(bolding in above quote is mine)

I couldn’t agree more with Mr. Smythe. In any event I direct, players are advised that if they wish to use an analog clock, all they will get is the base time for whatever control - no delay or increment adjustment at all.

71

Concur. The delay-capable clock has been the standard timer for more than two decades. It is well past time for analog clock users to get a new clock.

72

I could not agree more strongly with these statements. It is time to move on from the analog clock days.

73

(Stymied by the five-quote limit, but it should be clear this is in response to the above few posts.)

Yes, I will join this choir—but is this not already the rule, as of two years ago? To do otherwise is considered a major variation and must be announced in advance, posted, etc. Right? i.e. A TD could not just offhandedly announce as games were about to start for round one of a G/25 d5 event that analogs should be set for G/30.

I am pretty sure there are local events out in Hooterville where folks did not get the memo, and still deduct five minutes for delay-digital/add five minutes for analog. But I have been pleasantly surprised to see no examples of that at all in my limited rated play and observation since the rule changed.

74

To the point: The TD tip about adjusting analog clocks for games played under increment controls should likely be eliminated.

Although I could at least make a case for adjusting analog clocks based on a 30-second increment time control. I could make a better case that 30-second increment is sufficiently different from no increment (i.e. analog clock) that analogs should not be allowed in such events, except as a last resort when the alternative is no clock at all—and then the players just gotta deal with it.

75

Actually, by the 5F1.d. variant, a TD could do just that – IF neither player has a delay- or increment-capable clock.

I’m not saying it is good or bad. It is just ALLOWED.

76

The relevant USCF rule being cited here is 26B. I would contend that it does not apply in this case.

The rule defines a “major variation” as one that is likely to deter some players from entering. The variants cited in this thread (which apply to USCF Rules 5F2c and 5F2d) are not likely to deter players from entering, IMO. They only apply to players with analog clocks, and the variants, if employed, give that subset of players more reflection time, not less. So I would find it challenging to argue that employing either variant would deter players from entering.

77

To get back to the original topic (10-second delay) for a moment:

In the tournament I played in yesterday, I saw a clock which I think was the Chronos Mini described above. [ EDIT: It was a ZMF. See the following two posts. ] This model had only a 4-digit display (h:mm or mm:ss) as opposed to the 5-digit (h:mm:ss) on the larger Chronos. It also had an LED display (red on black) instead of LCD (black on light grey).

It solved the problem of showing the delay time vs the main time in an interesting way.

This tournament had a 5-second delay. For the first 5 seconds after the opponent pressed the clock, the player’s clock would alternate, in half-second intervals, between showing the delay time and showing the main time:

05
23:45
04
23:45
03
23:45
02
23:45
01
23:45

– and after that, would settle down and just show the main time.

Since it showed the delay as 2 digits, obviously this mode would also work with a 10-second delay, or for that matter any delay up to 59 seconds (maybe even 99 seconds).

Also, the alternation between a 4-digit display and a 2-digit display made it clear which one it was displaying at any particular moment.

Yet another novel idea from Chronos, [ oops, ZMF ] , I’d say.

Bill Smythe

78

I think the clock described above was a ZmartFun clock.

The Chronos Blitz (which is the “mini” Chronos that I believe Mr. Bird was discussing) shows delay either by blinking colons (in its TC modes) or by a countdown in the lower right hand corner of a player’s display (in its TN modes). It can’t show the same countdown in TC modes because the part of the display used to show delay in TN modes is reserved for a visible move counter.

Also, I am not aware of a Chronos with LED display. The ZmartFun clock, of course, has such a display as Mr. Smythe describes above.

79

Yes Bill, that clock was a ZMF - II clock. The “ZMF” stands for “ZmartFun”

Chronos has always had a LCD display.

I own a ZMF - II clock with the red LED on black just as you saw.

This clock also does alternate the delay countdown with the remaining time as you described.

That clock only has a touch sensor instead of buttons. Look at pictures of it here:

http://www.chesshouse.com/ZMF_II_Black_Digital_Chess_Clock_LED_p/e443.htm

You also will find that this clock’s body is made of plastic and every Chronos clock made to date has an aluminum body.

80

Thanks to both of you for the correction on the clock brand. It sure looked like a Chronos, though, except for the LED display! It appears that Chronos may finally have some competition in the “let’s do it the best way” department.

I did not get a chance to handle the ZMF, so I didn’t notice the non-metalicity of the ZMF case.

EDIT: I just looked at the web address you (Ron) gave. I think I’d prefer green digits over red, but I still like the black case. It may soon make me a convert!

Bill Smythe