The US Chess rules allow a second scoresheet even if a prescribed scoresheet is provided.
Historically, the rules have allowed for a player to have a second scoresheet during the game. The reason for this was, for example, if the player had a scorebook. They would then have to use the “official” scoresheet, but were allowed to have a secondary scoresheet that was unofficial. The rules are specifically worded to allow this.
There are three key rules involved:
Keeping score:
15A. Manner of keeping score. In the course of play each player is required to record the game (both the player’s and the opponent’s moves), move after move, as clearly and legibly as possible, on the scoresheet prescribed for the competition. Algebraic notation is standard, but descriptive or computer notation is permitted. The player must first make the move, and then record it on the scoresheet. The scoresheet shall be visible to the arbiter (tournament directors) and the opponent throughout the game.
Note that there is no requirement in 15A that the player keep score only once, or only on the scoresheet prescribed.
Use of notes:
20C. Use of notes prohibited. The use of notes made during the game as an aid to memory is forbidden, aside from the actual recording of the moves, draw offers, and clock times, and the header information normally found on a scoresheet. This is a much less serious offense than 20B; a warning or minor time penalty is common, with more severe punishment if the offense is repeated.
The rule against use of notes allows the recording of moves, draw offers and clock times and scoresheet header information. Again, there is no requirement for a single scoresheet. Further, a second scoresheet is not “an aid to memory” since the same information is also on the first scoresheet. Therefore, there is no basis to rule that the use of a second scoresheet is note-taking.
Use of recorded matter:
20B. Use of recorded matter prohibited. During play, players are forbidden to make use of handwritten, printed, or otherwise recorded matter. While the penalty is at the discretion of the director, a forfeit loss is usually ruled if the material is relevant to the game, while a lesser penalty or warning is common otherwise. For example, a player on move five of a King’s Indian Defense would usually be forfeited for reading a book on the King’s Indian but given a warning or time penalty for reading one on rook
The key phrase here is “During play, players are forbidden to make use of handwritten, printed, or otherwise recorded matter.”
That is, while there doesn’t seem to be anything in 20C. or 20B. that precludes recording the game a second time,the player could not USE the second recording of the game to make a claim. Doing so would be “making use” of the second recording.
Consequently, the rules allow a second scoresheet even if a prescribed scoresheet is provided.
I agree in general with your conclusion, but I am a little uncomfortable with a few of the details in the rules as written.
– Unless, of course, the second scoresheet not only contains “the same information [ that ] is also on the first scoresheet” but also includes some additional notes, in which case the second scoresheet could reasonably be regarded as note-taking.
OK, but if the player handed his second scoresheet (instead of the first) to the TD in the process of making the claim, the TD should probably allow it, provided that the second scoresheet is not in violation of 20C, and provided that the first scoresheet is not missing any moves that are present on the second.
All of the above, of course, could reasonably be described as nitpicking.
But I am forced to wonder why we need both 20C and 20B. Aren’t “use of notes” and “use of recorded matter” essentially the same thing? Of course 20B was intended to refer to pre-recorded notes (such as books), while 20C refers only to notes written during the game, but the rules are the same for both.
Scoresheets are required to contain only certain information, so they cannot be different (and thus be notes) unless the player is already violating the rules with respect to allowable scoresheet info(and thus be notes.)
Basically you are suggesting a tautology_ ifa player is violating the rules he/she is violating the rules.
“Each player is required to record the game… on the scoresheet prescribed for the competition.” IMHO If you are using a scoresheet that isn’t prescribed for the competition then you run the risk of a TD telling you you cannot use it.
Please also note the other rules about the treatment of the scoresheet (singular). How does a TD rule on a second scoresheet, say a scorebook, that isn’t always visible to the opponent or if someone is recording the second version in descriptive notation? The second scoresheet isn’t actually part of the competition since it isn’t the one prescribed and therefore a TD may wish to remove any issues in relation to this by requiring that only the scoresheet prescribed for the competition be used.
I can’t see much reason why a player would want to keep two records of moves, unless one were being kept in a different fashion (e.g., there is a paper scoresheet that is prescribed for the tournament, but the player wants to keep a record on a Monroi device). I can’t see anything in the rules that would constitute a grounds for a TD to prohibit this.
Actually, your line of logic proves, at most, that under US Chess rules there is no good reason to believe that a second scoresheet should be prohibited. They do not say explicitly that a second scoresheet cannot be prohibited.
They also do not explicitly prohibit a player from bringing a chain saw to the tournament and laying it next to the board. Yet I’m sure most organizers would not permit such an action.
Additionally, please remember that your good friend Alex Relyea FIDE-rates many of his tournaments. Therefore, you might want to look at the FIDE rules rather than the US Chess rules in the area of scorekeeping. It would not surprise me at all if FIDE were tighter and more explicit regarding such matters. Mr. Relyea’s “threat” to enforce the rules may be more of a promise than a threat.
Whenever you are paired against me, if the TD permits it, you are welcome to keep score on three different e-notation devices and two handwritten scoresheets, and to listen to your music on your earphones and/or earbuds. In fact, if you’re listening to Frankie Yankovic, I may even ask you to turn it up a little.
As Bill says above, the rules don’t prohibit a second scorekeeping sheet/device; however, they also don’t say a second scoresheet can’t be prohibited.
TDs rule on specific claims, and the circumstances of those claims are not always explicitly covered in the rulebook.
In a US Chess event, if a player wanted to keep score using two methods, I wouldn’t intervene. If the opponent called me to the board and questioned that, I’d ask the opponent why they were concerned about it, and I’d proceed from there. Context is everything.
FIDE-rated events are another matter, and Chris Bird would be the one to comment on that.
As I’ve noted in another social media forum, it is always possible to make rules exceptions with advance announcement - and agree with Maret’s comment . As the rules don’t prohibit a second scoresheet, a prohibition would appear to be a major variation requiring advance publicity.
My argument was that there doesn’t seem to be a way to prohibit them on the spur of the moment - assuming there isn’t some additional issue; for example, the scoresheet is so large that it’s cumbersome on the available tabletop and is therefore distracting to a hypothetical reasonable person.
What is your view about score sheets [provided by organizer] that have a chess diagram. Is filling in a diagram a violation of the rules?
On another note I would object to the recording of the time used for moves by an opponent. Marking your own time is one thing, but your opponents another. What if a player writes down the time of an opponents move that shows a lot of time was taken on the move, then after a set of moves have been played the player reassess the position and game just because the score sheet show the amount of time take for the previous move by the opponent? By being able to check back and note that a specific move took a lot of time for the opponent to make the player has a written aid to the game itself. After all you are not strictly speaking allowed to make any kind of note (on the score sheet) that you find a particular position of interest to review at a later time after the game.
Nothing that organizer/TDs do is on “the spur of the moment.” Much planning goes on before an event to ensure that there is as little as distraction as possible for the players during the games. The organizer’s conception of an acceptable playing environment is based on factors, limits, and conditions that players are usually not interested in knowing. This is especially true when the sponsoring affiliate is providing sets, boards, clocks, score sheets, and has made food and drink available so that they do not have to waste time looking for a restaurant. In lifting those extra burdens, the organizer is trying to reach an ideal for a perfect tournament. Most players are grateful for that and do not cause problems. If an individual player has any questions, he should contact the organizer in advance for granular details.
No pre-tournament publicity or game day announcement can cover every nit that rules lawyers, OCDs, and “helpful” critics want to pick. There are no rules for “comfort peacocks” either, but the organizer reserves the right to determine what to do in anomalous situations. Stuffed tigers, Beanie Babiies, and unicorns will be accepted on a case by case basis as long as they are not extremely distracting. Four foot long stuffed alligators and enormous teddy bears will not. Normally, we would not have to put that into pre-tournament publicity. If that is too stressful, then perhaps the player should consider another tournament where whims and all sorts of exceptions are allowed by organizers and TDs who court problems rather than anticipate them.
Our club’s scoresheets have special boxes on the lines so that you can record your time and opponent’s time. Keeps the notation neater. One of our chess moms designed it to help the kids in keeping score. Most scoresheets do not have that feature, not even the double scoresheets sold by USCF Sales. Most of the tournament players use and appreciate it.
Recording of clock times seems explicitly allowed (by 20C, not 20B). No specific mention is made about selective noting of clock times.
Regarding diagrams, US Chess seems silent.
In both cases, FIDE might be another matter.
Rules regarding score sheets (both FIDE and US Chess) should probably remain silent on most specifics. It is already obvious from this thread that no rule set could anticipate every possible silly question or piece of peccable logic cooked up by every argumentative Mensa logician in the universe. Such protesters need to get used to the idea that they may be overruled onsite by organizers (especially well-qualified NTDs), and should also make it a point to contact such organizers ahead of time regarding their questions.
