LOL. You have a funny definition of prejudice. It means to “pre-judge” - hence the word. The concept is to judge without knowledge. It has nothing to do with treating people all the same. By that definition, not putting in ramps for the disabled would be fine, because I’d be treating them the same as everyone else!
You would likely argue "but the disabled person can’t walk up the stairs, the religious person can use the digital clock. And you see, this is exactly where you have pre-judged. Because you haven’t taken the time to understand that for certain types of truly religious people, they have no greater ability to push the clock button on the Sabbath than the disabled person has the ability to walk up the stairs.
I may have been under a mis-impression - thought this prohibition also applied to traditional (wound) analog clocks (as well as keeping notation). (I mention wound, because there are electric analog clocks.)
If that is the case, once a digital clock is turned on (and thus the circuits are already completed) why can’t they push the button (simply activating one completed circuit over another?)
I’m sure that, on all digital clocks, whether they have individual buttons or a rocker arm, the play buttons are nothing more than electrical switches.
On the Chronos, at least, these are momentary-contact switches. The circuit closes when the button is pressed, and opens when it is released. The closing of the circuit tells the electronic circuitry to stop one clock and start the other.
Therefore, the player is closing a circuit every time he presses the clock.
On clocks with a rocker arm (or with buttons that stay down after they are released), it is probable that the circuit stays closed after the player releases the button. Still, pressing the button closes one circuit and opens another, so the player is still closing a circuit every tinme he presses the button.
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I haven’t discussed this issue with a rabbi, but here is my understanding.
There are certain activities forbidden on the sabbath. A lot of people, based on Christian teaching, thing there is a prohibition against “work”, but that isn’t it. The people who wrote the Talmud came up with a list of activies (39 oft hem? I think) that you definitely could not do. The two that are at issue in Chess tournaments are writing, and starting fires.
The fire starting rule comes into play because when electricity was invented, or at least harnessed for man’s use, naturally Jews wondered how that fit into the scheme of things. The rabbis decided that turning on an electric light, which was what people first used electricity for, was a lot like lighting a fire, so you couldn’t do it on the sabbath. These same sages decided that really, operating any electric switch of any sort was in the same category as operating a light switch. The pushbuttons on an electric Chess clock are therefore forbidden under the “fire” clause. However, a windup clock isn’t covered. There shouldn’t be any issue that I can see about using a wind up clock on the sabbath.
As digital electronics and sensors have become more ubiquitous, it has become harder and harder for Orthodox Jews to decide what they can and cannot do. Until the last few decads, most electrical circuits were either on or off, and there were switches that determined their state. With microprocessor controlled devices,it’snot so easy. There are a lot of motion sensing lights in the world today, and the most strictly observant Jews are in a quandary about where they can walk if those lights are present. I’m guessing that automatically activated plumbing fixtures cause all sorts of dilemmas.
I have even read that some strictly observant rabbis, even among the ultra-orthodox, have decided that electricity isn’t fire after all. They all agree that incandescent lights can’t be turned on on the sabbath, because they really are basically slow burning fires, but other devices, which would include Chess clocks, might be back on the ok list.
I did some googling on the subject. Apparently, many rabbis feel that the use of any sort of game timer on shabbat violates the prohibition against “measuring”, which is also one of the prohibited activities.
If that’s the case, it would seem to me that Orthodox Jews would not be allowed to call their opponent’s flag on shabbat, regardless of whose hand had punched the clock.
(For what it’s worth, much of this sort of debate that one can read about concerning Jewish law seems somewhat silly to me, but I try not to be overly judgmental about it. Mostly, if someone wants to play Chess, I’ll make any reasonable accommodation to let him. Having a clock puncher and scorekeeper doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it makes them happy, so be it.)
ETA: After further review, it seems that the whole subject of time measurement on shabbat is a bit complex. If you seek guidance, ask your rabbi. I know I will, if I ever happen to remember. Being Reform, the discussion is entirely academic to me anyway. From a TD perspective, though, I’ll reiterate my previous point. I’ll let people play Chess unless their religious prohibitions end up causing a disruption for their opponent or other players.
I’m with Tony Miles on this one. Unless you’re running a consultation game tournament, all players must operate their own clocks, period. It’s part of the game, like keeping score or, in golf, walking the course.
If your religion does not permit you to do something don’t whine about it and ask for special privileges. Suck it up and don’t play on the sabbath, take up a different game, or change religions.
Instead of quoting a rabbi or the Talmud, let me take a slightly different angle. How does FIDE address the issues of “doing work” and “measuring time” on the Sabbath?
There are enough chess players of Jewish faith. Israel itself is a major power, led by World Championship challenger Gelfand. And yet I never heard of special accommodations made at international events, even those with over a thousand players like the Olympiad. No doubt there must be precedent somewhere.
Kevin provided one correct answer. Another, though, is that it is permissible to measure if measuring is required in order to fulfill another mitzvah. There is a service required at the end of the sabbath. If you need to see what time it is in order to know when to perform the service, then you can measure time. (e.g. if you are somehow stuck in a room with no outside view, so you can’t see when the sun goes down, you can look at your watch to see what time it is.)
While I have a certain degree of sympathy with your position, the USCF rulebook does not. The rulebook allows religious exemptions, period.
ETA: And it does so for a reason. There’s no reason not to allow the exemptions. The religious player isn’t getting any advantage, and no one is really inconvenienced in any meaningful way by any of these accommodations. There’s no “special privilege”. I would think anyone made uncomfortable by the religious exemptions is probably objecting to the religion itself, rather than to any of the actual modifications to playing conditions.
Yes it is by definition a special privilege. Players are required to control the clock. Given the importance of time and clock operation in our game, any exemption aside from physical handicap is absurd and unfair. Besides, the rules say “may accommodate” not “must.”
The opponent is inconvenienced by having someone sitting right there, close enough to operate the clock, hovering over the board. What happens during a time scramble? Does the shabbat goy press the button on the clock as soon as the move is made, or delay a few milliseconds to simulate the player’s arm movement? How about situations where the player, due to distraction or time pressure, might forget to press the clock? What if the designated clock-presser forgets? What if he presses it or decides not to after an illegal move?
If your religion forbids you from doing something then don’t do it, and don’t complain or ask for special privileges.
CHARACTER has become a nearly forgotten word in our society.
Unless of course the rulebook says they are not required to control the clock. Since the rulebook does, indeed, say that they are not required to control the clock, your adamance on the subject is puzzling. Whether or not the rulebook ought to allow a religious exemption, it does allow it.
As for you being an anti-semite, I doubt it. I don’t really run into very many people I would call anti-semitic, if the truth be told. On the other hand, I do run into a fair number of people who just can’t stand having to deal with archaic, outdated, superstitious religions, and who think that practitioners of those religions should keep to themselves and stop bothering decent people.
As for the degree of inconvenience associated with allowing a clock-pusher, I would think it would depend on the circumstances of the match. In Blitz Chess, it just wouldn’t work. In a major tournament with a large cash prize at stake, it would be reasonable for the TD to carefully consider the situation and determine if the religious person is somehow deriving an advantage from his actions, and if so, perhaps assess a compensating penalty. (I don’t have a rulebook with me, but I think that’s explicitly allowed.) However, this thread was started with a description of a not very important scholastic tournament. In that case, I wouldn’t have to think twice about whether to allow a clock pusher. Of course I would allow it.
Rule 35F10c allows a disabled person to use an assistant to keep score and to start the opponent’s clock, and Rule 15A1a states that “Players determined by the director to be unable to keep score due to physical handicaps may have assistance in scorekeeping as described in 35F, Rule for visually impaired and disabled players, and should be excused from scorekeeping if such assistance is unavailable” (emphasis mine).
But the equivalent rule for religious exemption (15A1b) states that “Players determined by the director to be unable to keep score for religious reasons may be excused from scorekeeping or permitted to have assistance as in 35F, Rule for visually impaired and disabled players, at the director’s discretion” (emphasis mine). Similarly, the TD TIP for rule 35F states that “The director might also find it valuable to use these rules as a guide for dealing with cases in which the player has religious, philosophical, or practical concerns” (emphasis mine).
So, while the rulebook indicates that the director should make accomodations for disabled players, it merely suggests that the director make similar accomodations for those with religious concerns.
I agree with your statement that “There’s no reason not to allow the exemptions” (keep in mind that, according to Rule 35F10, if a disabled person is permitted to use an assistant, the other, non-disabled player has the right to do the same). But the rulebook doesn’t require a tournament director to permit an assistant when religious concerns are involved.
My wording was unclear. My bad. I was thinking, when I wrote that, from the TD perspective. What I meant was that the rulebook allows the TD to grant a religious exemption. Adp had written that “all players must operate their own clocks, period.” That’s not correct according to the rulebook. The rulebook says that all players must operate their own clock, unless the TD decides that it’s ok for them to not operate their own clock.
Here we are in Forum World, where people ignore what others write, pretend reality doesn’t exist, and everyone is happy because they have their say (“Look ma, I’m on the interweb.”)
May does not equal shall. The advantage to one player – not having to work the clock – is indisputable; the potentially disruptive effects on the normal conduct of a chess game have also been amply noted (and ignored).
There are acts of faith that even Tim Tebow would not display in certain circumstances. Americans are 99% free to practice their religions as they choose. We have an obligation to be cordial and not overly judgmental, not to bend over backwards to accommodate every whim and whine.
Physical handicaps are not the same as fetishes through whatever heavenly force acquired. Practice your religion in private, or in ways that do not inconvenience or scandalize your fellow human beings.
The person’s individual interpretation of their religious law should not be catered to in a chess tournament.
I recall there have been some GM’s, as well as others, that were very observant of the Sabbath and would not play any chess game on that day. Let’s face it, for these professionals, Chess is work and they should not work on the Sabbath.
There are also a great number of people that have the Sabbath as part of their religion that play Chess on that day. Perhaps they are not Chess professionals and they feel that playing Chess is not work but recreation.
You know what, this should be the end of the discussion, because either the person is so observant of the Sabbath that they will not play Chess or they don’t observe it that strictly and do play, period.
It really is nonsense that people try to get out of pushing the button on the clock and/or writing or otherwise notating the moves, as that constitutes electricity or work in other forms. If these people are that observant of their religion, they simply shouldn’t play on the Sabbath.
From the point of the Chess tournament, it should be open to all that want to play under the rules of play that are equal for everyone. Yes, physical handicaps can very well be excepted with special equipment or helpers. However to make such exceptions for religion to allow the person with his specific religious observation concerns, to do things so differently as to not push the clock button or keep score is wrong. These people happily will push the button and write the moves on non-Sabbath days. If they are truly that observant of the Sabbath, they should simply not play and truly rest as their teachings dictate.
Why??? Because YOU say so?
As a TD, I will be more flexible. TDs and TOs that are more flexible will likely have more people in their tournaments. For that matter, I think that the other players MOSTLY will gladly be flexible if it means another person gets to play that would otherwise be excluded. Of the ones that aren’t willing to be flexible? I’d rather have the extra, sincerely religious players, than the bigoted, close-minded players that aren’t willing to make reasonable compromises.
