Hello,
playing a tournament, a referee of the tournament didn’t allow me to use my digital clock (DGT 2010), since the delay is not showed on its display; but he delay is added after a move.
I have checked the “US Chess Federation Rules of Chess” and found that on p. 9/10 “add-back or Bronstein mode clock typically add delay time at the end of the move”, and p. 61 “Players should explain the flag fall mechanism and the clock’s operation to their opponents”.
I couldn’t find anything about the delay time, if it is preferable to see the delay time or not.
Um, appeal? Seriously, there doesn’t seem to be much you can do when the TD doesn’t understand the rules of chess in this way (see the topic about the player who was not allowed to use delay at all). Of course the TD (organizer) has the option to disallow Bronstein mode, as long as he publishes the rules variation, but I assume that what we have here is a failure to understand the rulebook, which isn’t as rare as it should be. Perhaps if you ask the TD to see his copy of the rulebook the next time you encounter him, and then show him that he was wrong, this problem won’t happen again.
Many TDs are not familiar with all kinds of digital clocks. In California, the dominance of the Chronos clock (which has normal delay) has turned Bronstein mode into a bit of a dinosaur.
In some CCA tournaments, I have seen a variation posted that a clock with “true” delay is preferable to one with Bronstein, but Bronstein is preferable to a clock with no delay at all.
When you were refused the right to use your Bronstein clock, was it because your opponent had one with “true” delay, or did you end up using one without delay at all?
I’m a bit suprised that the DGT 2010 doesn’t have true deley. I’ll need to look up the options in the Excaliber II clock. I know it has true deley, but curious if it has bronstein style delay.
I’d think true delay would be the preference for most chess players though.
BTW, I finally ordered a Chronos Clock (touch style). Just waiting patiently for it to be delivered.
The DGT 2000 doesn’t use “true delay” either. We used it for the U.S. Championship last year, and especially for the U.S. Championship blitz since many of the players didn’t bring clocks. The time control for the latter was GAME/5 with 2 second delay (the former had an increment time control), and the DGT 2000 started the time at 5:02. If you moved within two seconds you got all your time back, but if you moved slower than that you only got two seconds back after your move. It’s exactly equivalent to “true delay”.
I’m familiar with this tip, but I seem to remember a thread on here from a very long time ago where some people “felt” that they were different. Personally, I can’t see any difference at all in the way that the DGT does it, and no material difference in the way that any clock does it.
Delay mode and Bronstein are entirely equivalent, provided that the delay time (2 seconds or 5 seconds or whatever) is added to both players’ Bronstein main time, on a one-time basis, at the start of the game. (Even without this condition, the only difference is a total difference of just 2 seconds, or 5 seconds, for the entire game.)
It has increment possibilities. I’m sure there is an easier way to set it, but if you set it with infinate 1 move in 30 sec time controls (or whatever increment you want beyond the initial time) it has the equivilent of the “Fischer clock”.
Use Ch-P1 and set time control 1 to 2min to make 1 move.
Then set time control 2 (progressive) to 12 seconds to make 1 move.
Thus I get my 2min +12 seconds per move time controls.
I think the manual could use a bit of revamping for readability. Its not horrendous, but some modes like the one I was trying to get, should be as a pre-set at a bare minimum, since its so popular on FICS and ICS. Oh well, its in there, just not easy to find.
And the manual definatly needs to explain how to set up games with added time per move. As it stands, you really need to tinker with the clock alot to guess which mode you can do that from.
I would say that they are only 99.9% equivalent. If you’re used to living on the edge knowing that you can think 5 seconds on any move, it’s a rude awakening to find that that last second doesn’t go as far as it used to. Even with the extra time added at the start, which should tip you off, I suspect many people wouldn’t have that in their consciousness in a time scramble. Personally, I think that a 30 second increment would reinforce the difference steadily throughout the game, while a 5 second increment would barely be noticed.
I agree there can be an important psychological difference for some players. Maybe that’s one reason a few organizers use the variation that a clock with “true” delay is preferable to a clock with Bronstein, which in turn is preferable to a clock with neither.
Were you playing Black or White? Failing agreement, and with otherwise standard equipment, it becomes Black’s choice - though Black can’t delay start of game to get standard equipment.
Did you arrive on time to your board for the round? Had your opponent already set up otherwise standard equipment? If you’re late you lose the choice of equipment if it’s standard.
And was the clock set properly / does the player with the delay clock know how to set it? (I think it must be OK in this case - but the opponent chooses if the delay can’t be “properly” set.)
And did the tournament itself provide clocks that met the equipment standards? Organizers have the right to provide standard equipment which will be used, as I read 39A.
(I’m not arguing the Bronstein/Delay thing - others have pointed out that they’re regarded as equivalent by the rules… And any variation otherwise should be announced before start of Round 1. Just wondering if there were other factors the TD was considering.)