Someone mentioned on another post that thier going to (or currently are), rating 15min to 29 min games as duel time controls: provided there is at least some delay thats 15 seconds or less. (Is that right, or did the poster mean to say 15 seconds or more?)
Can anybody elaborate why they keep expanding the duel time controls and basically shrinking the Quick only rating time controls?
I know this has been hashed out on other threads, but can anybody refresh my memory as to why Duel Time Controls were invented in the first place?
I have yet to meet a single person that likes duel time control. Most of my friends avoid duel time control games like the plague.
They’re trying to get a larger sample to produce more accurate Quick ratings. Not that many people are interested in Quick-only tournaments, and the result was a grossly inaccurate rating system. Of course, the obvious answer would have been to admit that the Quick rating system was a bad idea in the first place, but the USCF never does that.
I’m not sure what post you are referring to, I am not aware of any actively proposed changes in what time controls are eligible for dual rating. (There are several ratings systems proposals on the Delegates Agenda, but none of them deal with changing the boundaries between quick and dual ratings or between dual and regular ratings.)
Bill Goichberg (among others) has proposed that ALL games be rated under the Quick system, but I think that proposal is dead in the water.
What this says, in essence is that IF there are 16 or more seconds of increment or delay in a game, then it can ONLY be Regular Rated.
But if the increment or delay is 15 seconds or less, then events with a total time of 5 through 29 minutes can ONLY be quick rated, events with a total time of 30 through 60 minutes MUST be dual rated and events with 61 or more minutes can ONLY be regular rated.
For regular rated games with 16 or more seconds of increment or delay mode there also must be at least 5 minutes on each player’s clock, but I don’t think there have been many regular rated events that were at time controls like G/5 + 16 seconds increment or delay. (I’m not aware of any, but that doesn’t mean someone hasn’t done it.)
Please reread my post carefully. What I said was that 15/15, SD/15 is now dual ratable. That’s a total time of 30 minutes per player.
Under the previous time control rules, only events with a primary sudden death time control, eg, events with a time control of Game/30 through Game/60, were dual ratable. That rule was changed a year ago to treat 15/15, SD/15 as the same as Game/30 and thus dual ratable, though I do not know if any organizers have taken advantage of that change in the rules.
Similarly 30/30, SD/30 would now be dual ratable while prior to that rule change it would have been regular rated only, because it did not have a primary sudden death time control. 30/30, SD/30 used to be one of the more popular time controls, but these days it is rarely used.
Maybe instead of the USCF trying to figure out the linear curve of every possible option presented with incremental time, I think they should base Quick, Duel Rated, and Regular rated games purely based on the primary time control, and not let the increment or delay factor into the equation. Mostly because there is, for all practical purposes, an infinate amount of permutations allowed in the time frame of 15 minutes and 29 minutes, provided there is at least some sort of delay or incremental time involved.
I think possibly you may be misreading what Mike Nolan wrote. Mike is talking about two separate time controls; the first time control gives each player 15 minutes to make the first 15 moves of the game. The second time control gives each player an additional 15 minutes, and the player must complete the game in whatever time is left on the clock. The sum of the times granted by the two time controls is 30 minutes. (Mike did not mention any delay or increment associated with the time control. If the delay or increment were 15 seconds or less, the game would be dual rated. If the delay or increment is greater than 15 seconds, the game would be regular rated.)
You are discussing a single time control which gives each player 15 minutes and adds 15 seconds after each move. For the purpose of determining the rating system, the total time given to each player is 15 minutes, and the game would be quick rated only. The number of moves in the game and the possibility of each player effectively having 30 or more minutes if there are 60 or more moves in the game does not affect the determination of rating system.
(If in fact I have misunderstood and you did understand the difference between Mike’s example and yours, I apologize.)
Ahh, ya, guess that would explain my confusion. ROFL. I did think he was talking about 2 different time controls, and not a Primary + Secondary time control.
I thought he meant 1 game with a repeating time control of 15min + 15 seconds for 15 moves, and the 2nd time control was a game at a straight SD/15min + 15 seconds.
As long as increment or delay is 15 seconds or less, it is irrelevant as far as whether the game is quick, dual or regular rated. That was one of the changes made a year ago.
The other change was to look at the sum of the various time controls and have that determine whether the game is quick, dual or regular ratable, assuming, again, that increment or delay is 15 seconds or less.
If the sum of those time controls (the final one of which for this purpose must be sudden death, of course) is less than 30 minutes, then the event is quick ratable only. If it is between 30 and 60 minutes, then it is dual rated, if it is more than 60 minutes then the event is regular ratable only.
An event which has increment or delay of more than 16 seconds may only be regular rated.
Also, one that does not have a final time control of sudden death can only be regular rated, as each round could last considerably longer than 2 hours (60 minutes per player.) But such events are getting rare.
I’m sure the rules committee considered these changes as simplifications, but in my experience there are few rules that cannot be misinterpreted.
Yes, under the current time control rules, 16 or more seconds of delay or increment means that an event is regular-ratable only, So G/30 + 16s delay is currently regular-ratable only.
Whether it would achieve the goal of allowing 4 rounds in a single day depends on what you consider a reasonable day’s worth of chess.
Moreover, if one game in each round goes 50 moves and each player uses the full 16 seconds of delay for each move, then that’s an additional 1600 seconds per round, or an additional 21+ minutes. That’s still faster than Game/61 with no delay, so you could probably schedule rounds 90 minutes apart, whereas with G/61 you have to plan on the rounds being at least two hours apart, preferably more than that.
If G/30 + 16s delay starts to become a commonplace time control, I would not be surprised if the Rules Committee suggested changing the cutoff point again, though.
To further convolute things, G/30+16s delay is NOT a JGP-eligible time control, even though it is regular-only ratable.
I haven’t been in the scholastic scene since my college days… whats JGP?
I agree though, any time control which you can schedule rounds in 90minutes is good, if your planning on having 3 or 4 rounds.
That leaves plenty of time for players to get to the hall and finish thier first round by lunch, followed by 2 rounds in the afternoon. Followed by a 4th round at 6pm. That should be plenty of time to both run that many rounds, and not feel like everybody is rushing to get it all done. In a large scholastic tournmant, after you add giving out trophies, and then putting up the tables and stuff, its gonna be close to 10pm.
8am to 10pm… sounds about right for a large scholastic tournament, although in case of scholastic, its probably better to stick with duel rated games anyways… its the adults (including me), that has issues with duel ratings.
JGP is Junior Grand Prix, a year-long competition for younger players in which they earn points by defeating or drawing with players rated at least 100 points above them, providing that the events are advertised in Chess Life and have a time control of Game/61 or slower.
As an organizer, I’m not sure I still have the energy for events that start at 8AM and end at 10PM (which means I probably need to leave home by 7AM and don’t get back until after 11PM.)
I’m not sure about playing in such an event, either.
Some of our HS events play four-round non-USCF-rated G/60 with an as-available schedule. They’ll start at 9 AM and start the awards ceremony before 6 PM. Some of the USCF-rating primary five-round G/30 with an ASAP schedule will start at 9 AM and start the awards ceremony by 1 PM (yes that is less than five hours after the start of play).
Adults generally will not go for an ASAP schedule, though it works fine for our club’s annual G/10, G/15 and G/5 nights (we don’t even specify the number of rounds, we start at 8 PM and just keep going as long as we can announce a round’s pairings by 10 PM).
Keep in mind that the scholastic tournaments would have to have a TLA. I try to run my one day tournaments at GAME/65 for that purpose. I don’t know if any young players come who wouldn’t come for GAME/60, though.
