Scenario:
… … USCF-rated section that is also FIDE-rated___able … … … Rounds “1a (Friday evening);” 2 (Saturday afternoon); 3 (Saturday evening); 4 (Sunday morning); and 5 (Sunday afternoon) Time Control is SD100; +30 (all FIDE-rated) … Round “1b (Saturday morning)” Time Control is SD90; d5 (and therefore NOT FIDE-rated) … … … I am serving as Arbiter … … another Local-level TD is serving as Chief TD for two other sections (USCF-only) … … … … … …
Situation:
… … In Round “1b,” PLAYER-A has less than five minutes on his clock and asks if he must record his moves … I respond “no,” while also reminding the opponent … PLAYER-B … (who had well over 15 minutes remaining) he still must record (until he reaches less than five minutes remaining) … … … however, PLAYER-B stopped recording – until I reminded him he must continue to record until his clock was under five minutes … … … did I mention he was a youngster --with his mother observing?? The other TD was also observing. PLAYER-B ended up winning … but, MOM then questioned why I required him to keep recording … and as I was explaining to her, the other TD interrupted and said the player DID NOT have to record once PLAYER-A’s clock was under five minutes “… because this round is not ‘FIDE-rated’ and FIDE rules do not apply.” I said the section as a WHOLE (re: ALL rounds/games) are still played by FIDE rules even though this particular round will not be rated. The section was advertised as “FIDE Rules/Rated.”
Question:
… … Who is correct … me, the Arbiter … or, the Local TD … … and why?
“Precedent:”
… … the TLA … to me, at least … implies ALL rounds will be player per FIDE rules … … … I think of an example as if I am hosting an Unrated tournament, yet I advertise “All USCF Rules/Regulations will apply …” … or, something to that effect … … correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I still have “the authority (LOL!)” to, e.g. impose same penalties as if USCF-rated; adhere to USCF pairing rules; and tell players “Yes, I know this tournament is unrated! White still can not start with three Queens …” … etc., etc. … … I would think the same philosophy would apply if I hold an Unrated tournament and advertise “All FIDE Rules/Regulations will apply …”
Summary"
… … A) The Arbiter … me … looks like a fool … and the round would NOT be required to follow FIDE Rules/Regulations … … … … …
or,
… … B) The Local TD is wrong … FIDE Rules/Regulations do still apply (in this case) even though this one round is not FIDE-rated … … … … …
Why is a TD, who is presumably not even an NA, and therefore not one of the section TDs for that section, or the tournament chief, getting involved anyway?
I am trying to follow your logic here. You are trying to imply that since the section was advertised as “FIDE Rules/Rated.” that this means that ALL games are played by FIDE rules. But you have already proven that the advertisement is FALSE because NOT all the games were FIDE Rated!
If you are basing your Rules logic on the fact that the advertisement must apply to ALL the games, then ALL the games must be FIDE rated too and you already admitted they weren’t.
8.4 If a player has less than five minutes left on his clock at some stage in a period and does not have additional time of 30 seconds or more added with each move, then for the remainder of the period he is not obliged to meet the requirements of Article 8.1.
8.5 a.If neither player keeps score under Article 8.4, the arbiter or an assistant should try to be present and keep score. In this case, immediately after a flag has fallen the arbiter shall stop the chessclock. Then both players shall update their scoresheets, using the arbiter’s or the opponent’s scoresheet.
b.If only one player has not kept score under Article 8.4, he must, as soon as either flag has fallen, update his scoresheet completely before moving a piece on the chessboard. Provided it is that player’s move, he may use his opponent’s scoresheet, but must return it before making a move.
c.If no complete scoresheet is available, the players must reconstruct the game on a second chessboard under the control of the arbiter or an assistant. He shall first record the actual game position, clock times, whose clock was running and the number of moves made/completed, if this information is available, before reconstruction takes place.
A difference in US Chess and FIDE rules is that with less than 5 minutes on the clock and less than a 30 second increment in the game - and d5 is certainly less than 30 second increment, then the one with less than 5 minutes can stop notation while the other player is required to continue to notate until reaching the same time constraints.
It does not matter whether or not the game is going to be rated by FIDE or not. It matters if the game is being played using FIDE rules. I can have a section play using FIDE rules and US Chess rate it and never FIDE rate it with no problem.
I don’t see how one can have games in the same section that are not being played using the same rules.
The TLA as you have extracted from it doesn’t appear to be all that clear - but if it says the section is played by FIDE rules then it is played by FIDE rules. The future rating of the event is not relevant.
Hello Alex!! Hope all is well in the Granite State!! By the way, my hometown is Elberton, Georgia – “The Granite Capital of The World!”
Nice to meet you, Allen!
The other “Local TD” didn’t interfere in the game itself (I WOULD have had a fit if he had!); he only spoke up AFTER the match when the player’s MOTHER spoke up and questioned why I required her son to keep score (when he still had over five minutes left on his clock). The game was already over (actually, so was the round – it was the last game!).
Allen’s quote “It does not matter whether or not the game is going to be rated by FIDE or not. It matters if the game is being played using FIDE rules. I can have a section play using FIDE rules and US Chess rate it and never FIDE rate it with no problem. I don’t see how one can have games in the same section that are not being played using the same rules …” was the same logic I was trying to convey (to the “Local TD” and to Mom!) concerning my ruling.
I concur. If you’re using FIDE rules, then you are using FIDE rules. That’s all that matters here. Whether the game is actually rated or not is irrelevant. The same section should use the same rules regardless of whether or not some of the games are 2-day and others are 3-day. I suppose you could announce in advance that the shorter games will use USCF rules and the longer games will use FIDE rules. But, honestly that seems more confusing for the players, then just having all games use FIDE rules.
Also, unless there are masters (over 2200 FIDE rated) even the G/90;d5 games can be rated.
The Time Control for the other two rounds on the day of the G/90;d5 were G/100; +30 … … which I believe could easily violate the “12 hours total playing time” if all three rounds were to be rated – especially if those “G/100” games went 75, 80 moves, etc.
I also agree with, that though legal, it would be even MORE confusing to have one round, e.g., played with USCF-only rules and the rest using FIDE rules.
I seem to remember a discussion, probably here or in the FIDE committee, a discussion as to whether this would be allowed, i.e. more than twelve hours (based on 60 moves) scheduled even if some rounds were not rated. At 11 hrs 50 minutes, you’re fine, though. It is really too bad we can’t ask Sevan Muradian about this.
