No. Clock-move supersedes determined-move, but it does not supersede touch-move.
If you are using both clock-move and touch-move, then:
Bill Smythe
now there appears to be two different interpretations: (emphasis, above, and below, are mine)
Until I read what Mr. Smythe wrote, I had never seen an interpretation of “clock move” that enforced “touch move.” I know that Mr. Wiewel has experience with blitz events at the national scholastic tournaments that were run using “clock move.” Perhaps he might be able to clarify?
If you touch a piece and can legally do so then you are required to move it, same with capturing. However, if you touch a piece that cannot be legally moved or captured then you are free to make another legal move with any piece and so long as you do so before hitting the clock then you do not fall foul to the illegal move penalties.
That is the normal touch move rule.
When clock move was used, the touch move rule was essentially eliminated as long as the clock had not been hit. Thus with clock move the move was not actually determined until it was completed. Players that started their move before their opponent hit the clock would thus telegraph their response and alert their opponents to blunders that could then be corrected/prevented.
The scholastic council has gone back and forth on which one to use (at least prior to the current blitz rules being adopted). It is currently touch move and matches the official blitz rules.
I did. Thanks to all for responding. Hijack away!
US Chess School allows it in their blitz tournaments. Search for “US Chess School” on YouTube and you’ll find a ton of videos of games from these tournaments, filmed by Greg Shahade.
That’s what the LEDs on top are for, although the clock can be set to not use them. Perhaps it should be a rule that such indicators must be used unless both players agree before the start of the game to turn them off.
The only excuse for not using the indicator LEDs is that they shorten battery life, but current Chronos clocks have a “short LED” option. Under this option, the LEDs come on for 1/4 of a second after a move. That’s long enough to give a visual indication that your press registers, but short enough to have essentially no affect on battery life, according to the manual.
OK, OK, I guess I was wrong. Apparently, to most people, “clock move” means essentially the suspension of both touch-move and determined move.
I didn’t really know, because the whole idea of clock-move (by either definition) is such an atrocity that it never should have been considered.
Bill Smythe
The LED indicates the clock is running, not whether the button was pushed properly. The original incident involved a claim of a defective clock.
It is never allowed in standard rated chess games. It is allowed in some variations of blitz rules.
OK, I mistakenly thought that this was permissible somewhere under the current rules.
Unfortunately, there are some (I don’t know how many) TDs who find the current rules an inconvenience. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are some Blitz tournaments that use clock-move as an announced variation.
Alex Relyea
The LEDs would have immediately alerted player A that his button press attempt had not been successful. If you press your button and you do not immediately see the LED next to your opponent’s button go on (and yours go off, if the “short LED” option is not in use), then you know that your press attempt was not registered for some reason, and you can deal with the issue immediately.
Except in time pressure when you don’t have time to think about whether or not the clock is working.
My first attempt at replying doesn’t seem to have worked, so let me try again.
As frequently happens in time pressure, Player A was hitting his clock without looking at it. In any case, my concern was more with helping a TD determine if a clock is defective than in helping the player know if he had stopped the clock properly. Yes, the LEDs are sufficient to inform the player if he takes time to look.
Obviously this isn’t a big problem. But I do conclude from this incident that I would prefer a clock that leaves evidence if the button has been pushed properly. The touch buttons on the Chronos seem to fit in the category of something that is done just because it can be. I don’t see the advantages.
I own a Chronos Blitz with the bio pads, which has become my default playing clock. I would say the primary advantages are that the plungers are completely silent and are much more durable than traditional plungers, since there are no moving parts involved.
Of course, you can’t hit the pad with a piece and have it register, and there is always the possibility that the LED indicator will malfunction. To me, these are acceptable risks. Not everyone will agree, and that’s fine.
Yes, quiet I can understand. Although an excitable player in time trouble will probably make enough noise just slapping a clock to drown out any noise the mechanism itself makes. But during the tranquil stretches, yes, the touch would be nice.
Personally, I still can’t get over the lack of tactile feedback on those clocks. I can’t stop myself from looking over at the clock after every touch to make sure that it really registered. This is very different from pressing a button that moves, where the sensation in your fingers assures you that you have performed a noticeable action. If I’m in time trouble, it really is distracting to me to look over at the clock and back every move to ensure that I actually pressed it. (I don’t think I’ve ever failed to press it, but the next time I fail to look, I probably will!)
I prefer a button push over the touch sensor. I do own a clock with touch sensor and will use it for only the much slower time controls where it is very unlikely to have any time problem. I find everyone looking at the clock to insure it activated, even a fellow that has one as his only clock for well over six years.
A small sound can be turned on for my clock when the touch button is activated, but if the sound volume is set low enough to not bother anyone around it very well might not be heard with any ambient noise.