There are many scholastic players that avoid taking notation at all costs.
I have tried taking time off their clock, stressing how important it is, etc. but they simply will not do it. Any ideas???
Some details might help, such as the age of the players, whether you’re talking about taking notation for rated or unrated games, club play, match play or open tournaments, time controls, etc.
That depends on the person, most of the very young do not understand chess notation, as one person will teach them in a different way to capture, like B:f6 or Bxf6 or Bf6, or like a pawn capture e:d or exd or ed5 or ed. As adults we can understand the basic difference of each player, for
a scholastic player Bxf6 and Bf6, has two different meanings.
If you have the time, play a game of chess with them, teach them the little difference in notation. It does take time and effort, in time they will learn. Roman was not built in a day,and our own social skills were not refinded even when we were called scholastic players.
Earnest
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td
The biggest problem is that coaches don’t take the time to teach their students notation. Learning notation should be done early in a student’s education.
As a TD, aside from forfeiting games for non compliance of the rules (USCF rule 13I), about the only options you have are (1) subtracting time from the players not recording. If you know that a player knows how to record the game but refuses to do so then you may certainly threaten them with the loss of the game, and that is usually sufficient to get them to start recording. But for those who genuinely don’t know how to record a game, you may have to simply excuse them. (2) One other option that comes to mind is to require the player to take notation by using the opponent’s scoresheet (USCF rule 15D). This should be done on the non recording player’s own time. This option may prove distracting to the opponent, however.
Of course, players not recording the game lose the right to claim certain draws, which in most scholastic games, is not enough of a deterrant in many cases.
Any ideas from others in this situation?
This is one idea how to deal with a large group of scholastic players, as (1) they do not know how to use notation as this is their first tournament, (2) as most scholastic players play fast, (regular rating G/30 or slower) most will end in checkmate less then ten minutes.
Tournaments’ with scholastic players, ever thought of a quick tournament as it takes care of the problem of notation. Majority of the scholastic players, there will be a few that want to take their time if it is a G/30 or slower. Having slow time controls in a scholastic tournament like G/60, it could be the last round on board one, they still have a total time between them of one hour and fourty minutes. Board two got done and someone got 3.5 out of four points, board one is still in play, it will end being 4 - 3 or 3.5 - 3.5 when both players are done. So you might have this father standing over you looking at the trophies, thinking if his son will get a trophy that says 1st place that you paid $3.25 or the second place trophy that you paid $2.95 when he gave you $15 just too have his kid be in your tournment.
So if you have a problem with notation in your tournament, just have a quick scholastic tournment.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, Local TD
I leave the matter of taking notation up to the student, unless the tournament is USCF with a time control greater than G/30. Then I tell them if they don’t want to take notation, at least write down a few moves and go from there. If they want to stop, they can do so.
Yes, I know this flies in the face of the rules and what the TD might say he requires, but I have reasons for this.
The main one is my answer to the question as to which is more important, making a student take notation which may distract him from the game and thereby losing it, or increasing his chances of winning by letting him forego taking notation? While I’m not saying I want to win at all costs, students who are losing because of it will soon be thinking it isn’t worth it to play at all.
Where notation needs to be done is at the club meetings. Being in a relaxed atmosphere where they can take notation and correct it if needed after the game will help them improve their skills, and eventually you can persuade them to do it during tournament play. After all, when you are working on a new opening or variation, do you immediately start playing it in rated tournamnets, or do you like to try it out in some practice games or at the club first?
Thanks to everyone who responded to the post. I have been running G/30 tournaments for elementary through high school (sectioned by rating). We do have sessions on notation at the club meetings and I even teach it before every tournament, but I see that I am expecting too much too soon from the younger players. Another factor is that the chess coaches that attend the tournaments request that their students record at least the first 10 moves so that they have something to review afterwards. I understand where they are coming from but I know from the responses (especially “Radishes” - you’re right - I have heard students say that taking notation “messes them up” - I even had one student try to get their opponent to take down their moves by offering to tell them verbally what the move was!! Had to put a stop to that right away…) tell me that the club is where the learning takes place. I will stress notation practice at the club, perhaps with a prize of a USCF scorebook for a player when he/she completely records a certain number of games (10?).
As far as future tournaments go, I like the idea of going to G/29 and will do for the one-day scholastic-only events from now on. Mixed Adult/Scholastic events (G/30 - G/60 or more) will require notation as usual and the students will have to live with that if they want to participate.
Thanks again for your insights!
John Zeitler
Have you thought of finding one of your students, and just sit down and play a match. Take the time for notation, and the use the clock. If you spend the time with a game(s), you will start to break the bad habits – the notation, the clock, and any other bad habits. Let the student learn from you, not from a lecture of words, only in the form of a game: the form of the game that is accepted in a tournament or match.
If you have a number of students, start with the ones that are wiser then the other. People, from adults to children, will do what the standards of the peer group: from your example they will learn from each other.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td
I think it’s good to remind the students that saving and reviewing your games is a good way to learn from your mistakes. After all, it is free except for the paper!?!
The word forfeit comes to mind, but then I’m not very patient with kids. 
Going to G/:29 doesn’t really solve the issue. Children need to learn to take notation, probably at the earliest time possible. And TD’s should make sure that all player’s rights are honored. A player taking notation is at a disadvantage to his non compliant opponent. Deducting time, which if you prescribe to the 5% recommendation in the TD Tip to rule 15A1, isn’t much of a penalty either, because many scholastic tournaments are G/:40 and the time deduction would be be a mere 4 minutes taken off. This is not a big factor because many youth players don’t use the full amount of their allotted time anyway, so losing on time isn’t much of a risk.
Players who know how, but refuse to take notation, should have their games forfeited. On the other hand, a player who doesn’t know how to take notation, has an extra hardship if we force him/her to learn at the tournament. In these instances, perhaps a combination of reduction/addition to time is warranted. Subtract 10 minutes from the player not taking notation and add an extra 10 minutes to the opponent’s time. In a G/:40 event, one player would be playing G/:50, while the other would play G/:30. This would not add to the total game time, but the larger time deduction may be enough of a factor to get the player to learn notation. Players who can’t take notation due to religious reasons should probably have assistance. The opponent of this player would be able to make use of an assistant, also.
One of the problems with scholastic notation, if the scholastic player has a chess coach, the great majority would tell the student(s) to keep with the game till checkmate. Have been told a number of times, so they learning with the endgame, as some scholastic players having a hard time learning the skill that the position can be a draw or a lost game. How many times have seen a scholastic player have a technical draw and press on to win the game, then lose to press on for a win when a draw was so close.
Do not mind if a player plays chess till checkmate, they might not know they were in a mate in two, ect. When someone is up a queen, with a number of passed pawns, and the player has nothing on the other side for defence, it begs the question that it is time to resign. With so many coachs telling the students to keep the game going till checkmate, does not make a better player. As it is so rare in scholastic chess for the players to find the game is a draw, then accept that it is of high risk to change the position to force a win.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, Local TD
12313120
Does anyone understand what was said here, or how ot relates to the taking of notation?
With notation, and the scholastic player if the player has a chess coach. As the chess coach wants to look over the game, some or even the vast majority of the chess coaches would tell their students to play till checkmate.
Would love a scholastic chess player to use notation, only if the scholastic player is in command of his/her fate. Chess games with scholastic players, some games can see the best moves would end in a draw. Asking these scholastic players why they did not play for a draw, they would say that they were told to play it out for a win, or told a draw does nothing.
Can understand the views of a chess coach to teach the children, when it comes to be said to play out the entirer game: you are going to win or going to lose and the idea of a draw is a poor mans way out. When you tell someone to play the game out, you are telling the person to play till checkmate. Can look at the board and see for example the kings and the only pawn on the A or H file: it is a dead draw – they are told to play to the end of the game.
Do not mind the scholastic player use notation, when a chess coach tells a student to always play the game to checkmate, some will take a gamble that would force a win on white or black, or play on in a game when there is little or no defence. When someone has a lone king, and the other player has a large amount of men on the board, the game keeps going on till checkmate.
It turns off the scholastic player as he/she is taking a beating, it turns off the person that won the game, if the student does lose a game when they could force a draw, only gets mixed statements from the chess coach when the game is gone over. As the chess coach will show a draw game and point why the scholastic player lost, when the scholast player was told tp play out the game.
Do like a scholastic player to use notation, when told they need to use notation for the parent or the scholastic chess coach: then the scholastic player is not in whole in charge of their fate.
As most scholastic players do not have the time to play chess, or they have very few games that are at a tournament they feel that they have to fight to the end. Just because the parent or the chess coach can look over the game, if Bobby Fisher can say that the Russians were cheating because they were told to take early draws: is it not cheating the scholastic player because he/she was told to play out the game no matter what happens on the board.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, Local TD
12313120
I don’t think this is necessarily the right idea for a tournament, but when I was coaching high school chess, an effective way of getting kids to learn to take notation was bribery. At the first lesson, a package of M&M’s for naming the correct moves, when the moves are being made on the board (concentrating just on the notation, rather than finding the moves themselves). For my more advanced players, we had pizza at the end of the year at the state tournament for everybody who could get through a league season (eight games) with all games notated (a few minor errors here and there were OK).
Encourage kids to stop taking notation when they get frustrated. I can’t tell you how many games I saw lost, because they wrote down White’s 8th move, forgot to write down Black’s 8th move, and then wrote White’s 9th move in the spot for Black’s 8th move, and are now perpetually off by a half-move. Then they spot the error and try to fix it midgame, and have a lot of difficulties with it. Variation: You can also encourage kids if they just made an earlier mistake to skip a few moves on the notation sheet and continue from there, especially with the more established kids.
Don’t force a particular style. If a kid wants to write de instead of dxe5, great. I saw one coach at the high school state tournament in Wisconsin berating his player because he chose to write e8/Q instead of e8=Q (or maybe it was vice versa). Life’s too short.
Also, a thought on the side topic of playing out to checkmate: I think, in general, it is a good practice. Indeed, if you have someone who continuously gets down by three-quarters of a box of chessmen, you can tell them that they do not have to play to mate, but when they are playing against relatively inexperienced players, you would be amazed at the glee they have when their naked king goes and munches a half box of chessmen by himself. 
The benefit of encouraging this behavior, especially with players who can see basic captures and a few elementary tactics, is that they won’t give up on the position when they simply become bored with it. A lot of these players play well enough to beat the relatively few folks who they’d play against. When they go up against serious competition, these players often get frustrated when they meet an opponent who poses some problems for them, and you’ll sometimes see students wanting to resign in positions that are better for the player, or even in positions that are unclear. Encouraging these players to play to mate offers them the opportunity to struggle with a position, and to try to come up with some kind of plan (even if it’s the wrong plan). It’s even more fun (when they keep good notation) for them to show you the position, and have them tell you the kinds of ideas that they were thinking about, even when they’re completely wrong. It’s that kind of strategy-building that ultimately builds not only the strength of the player, but also a love for the game that will keep them with the game beyond their scholastic years.
Some of the ideas I use when teaching is make the students use chess notation when discussing the position under discussion and not allow them to just move the piece. I also mandate that in club play, if they want to use a clock, they have to keep score. Finally, after each serious game, I require them to give me the score sheet so I can give them an evaluation of the game and correct any scorekeeping errors. Takes a lot of time, but is worth it for the students improvement.
As a TD, I abhore the idea of allowing a player to not keep score by giving up time. I feel it just encourages a player in thinking that keeping score is not a requirement. I’ve run tournaments where a large group of kindergardeners have little trouble keeping score. They help each other. The noise is bad, but they learn quickly. I may go soft and allow the K-3 group to avoid keeping score but for all others require that they at least try to note the piece and square moved to. They can ask for help at any time.
The best way, is play a game with your student. Have a number of chess coachs say not to do that. Trust me if you spend the time too use notation and the child will learn from you. If not then the other children will also not and soon your in a mob.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local TD
12313120
Ernie,
Some players can get ridiculous with asking for help, i.e. asking to see the opponent’s scoresheet after every move, or having the opponent tell the player what to write. This just adds more distraction for the opponent.
USCF TD Tip indicates a 10% reduction in time from the player not taking notation, but is this really a good enough deterrant? Do you read USCF rules as limiting the amount of time a TD can deduct from a player not taking notation?
In my opinion, a TD should be able to deduct as much time as he sees fit. If I was running a tournament of, say G/:30, I might be inclined to have the non recording player play at G/:15, for example. Does this seem too heavy handed? I just feel that players required to take notation are at a disadvantage to those who are not required, and deducting a few minutes from their time is not sufficient enough to level the playing field.
What do you think?
-Terry Winchester
Evansville, IN
With the 5th edition of the USCF rules that came into effect January 1, 2004, has made it clear on borrowing the score sheet. If the use of the opponents scoresheet, if your opponent ask to borrow your scoresheet. First, you can tell him if the opponent is asking on your time, he can borrow the score sheet when it is his time on the clock. When your opponent is borrowing your scoresheet, the opponent will have his clock running and shall be running until the scoresheet has been returned. The reason for this rule, if you lend your opponent your scoresheet during your time (1) you then do not have a scoresheet during the total time of your game, total time would be when your clock is running; (2) if you give your opponent on your time and the opponent is still borrowing then you have no way to make a move on your scoresheet; (3) it can be annoying to the person that was asked to have his scoresheet borrowed during his/her time on the clock.
If your opponent ask to borrow a scoresheet, you cannnot refuse as all scoresheets are the property of the sponsoring organization. This is a little strange rule, as the USCF does sell and promote the use of the players scoresheets.
Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, Local TD
12313120
A point of factual correction is in order here.
USCF Rule 15D3 Compliance clearly states that the opponent can, in fact, refuse to comply with a request from the opponent to lend his/her scoresheet. Where the player cannot refuse, is when the TD rules that the loan request is appropriate. It is factually incorrect to say that a player has to honor an opponent’s request.
The reasoning for this rule is detailed in 15D4 Excessive Requests and in 15E Borrowing not needed
Without this additional rule, this could cause a player to feel obliged to withstand distraction and annoying behaviour from an opponent who repeatedly requests the scoresheet.
Though players do own the scoresheets which they have personally purchased, the organizer/director still retains control over them until the end of play. This is so that TDs may verify certain claims. Sometimes it is necessasry for the TD to see the scoresheet of the player whose opponent has made a claim, as stated in 13C8 Use of opponent’s scoresheet in non-sudden death
Cheers,
Terry Winchester