JTP Scholastic Chess

[mnibb]

These are comments made to the USCF Issues forum I think more appropriately made here.

@mnibb

@nolan

If cost is your primary beef, go with the other rating service, and God speed.

Folks in other states have done that. (Though in at least one of those states I believe they periodically resync their ratings to make them comparable with the USCF’s ratings for players rated by both. IMHO, that’s kind of like having your cake and eating it too.)

If you haven’t already done that, then I have to presume that the USCF rating or something else the USCF has or does has enough additional intrinsic value to you or your players to make it worth more than that other rating service.

Thanks Mike, are you speaking as the official voice of USCF or as a fellow USCF member?

You know it is a tough call. The problem with cost is that Scholastic membership has a very broad range of involvement with chess. I would say (and this is just a guess) that 90% or so of Scholastic players simply want a rating service for the 5 or 6 rated tournaments that they play each year and so they have some idea of whether they are progressing or not.

On the other hand it is my goal for Scholastic chess to introduce the game and hopefully a good number will see chess as an opportunity for a lifelong hobby. Much of what the USCF offers helps with kids progressing as competitive chess players and adds some enjoyment to those kids who have taken the step to really enjoying the game as a hobby/sport. It would be good to remain in the fold of USCF with this goal in mind.

Perhaps the best method for Scholastics may just be something the USCF has had in place for quite a while, but I was basically unaware of. Perhaps, we should be using the JTP program for our kids through the 3rd grade. If I undertand properly, this is a program that gives for no fee, basic membership for using the rating service. Now from my perspective, perhaps the USCF should be charging say $5 per person for JTP or a slightly higher per game rating fee. (is there currently a per game rating fee for JTP) That way the more a kid plays, the more he pays. For as long as I have been involved in our local Scholastic Chess, it has always been the policy that everyone joins USCF because we play “USCF rated games” I think we can do that through the JTP program.

Anyway, no real desire to bolt - just an urge to explore options. I am really a supporter of Scholastic Chess and am personally beginning to enjoy the game a great deal myself - although my personal time is somewhat limited. (couldn’t tell it from all the time I seem to be spending on the forum )

[nolan]

The USCF supports scholastics in ways many scholastic programs may be unaware of.

The infrastructure to have tournaments announcements, certified tournament directors, maintain the rules of chess, assign membership IDs, rate events, correct events that are misreported, answer questions about the rules of chess, etc. costs money, far more than 18 cents a game.

Dealing with scholastic players good enought to have FIDE ratings or represent the US in international events costs money, too.

The USCF sends out thousands of things to schools every year. Many of those don’t result in immediate benefit to the USCF, they’re essentially ‘missionary’ activities.

[mnibb]

@nolan

The USCF supports scholastics in ways many scholastic programs may be unaware of.

The infrastructure to have tournaments announcements, certified tournament directors, maintain the rules of chess, assign membership IDs, rate events, correct events that are misreported, answer questions about the rules of chess, etc. costs money, far more than 18 cents a game.

Dealing with scholastic players good enought to have FIDE ratings or represent the US in international events costs money, too.

The USCF sends out thousands of things to schools every year. Many of those don’t result in immediate benefit to the USCF, they’re essentially ‘missionary’ activities.

Does anyone know of or have a “polished” presentation that could be customized for local presentations to either school administrations or local corporations and businesses. I’m looking to develop presentations that would encourage local school administrations to support chess clubs in their schools and to take and present to businesses for fund raising efforts.

I would think that I would not be the first person to have this need and that the USCF might have actually made some presentations like this in its efforts to promote chess and specifically scholastic chess. Would the USCF organization or the many members be willing to share MS Powerpoint or other multimedia presentation materiel or simply an outline of presentations given? I’m thinking with a little work, a pretty polished presentation could be developed and made available. I’ll gladly share whatever I come up with to anyone.

[nolan]

I’d start by contacting USCF Scholastic Director Jerry Nash.

However, he’s at the National HS so I don’t know if he’ll be reading email until next week.

[hiker]

This isn’t exactly what you’re looking for but it’s nice.

af4c.org/club/scripts/librar … &NS=PUBLIC

[Akzidenz]

It’s a shame this topic is appearing under the heading “JTP Scholastic Chess”.

It quickly moved into a discussion of how the USCF and its members might promote scholastic chess in areas where it is not already flourishing. That’s more intriguing than JTP. Can we rename the topic?

Having a presentation for scholastic chess would be useful. I could picture myself giving an “intro to scholastic chess” talk to PTAs, parent groups, etc. I wonder how many other scholastic chess leaders are willing to be chess evangelists? Certainly the chess instruction companies are, but how many volunteer leaders would be? Is it worth developing some kind of pitch to parents?

[MichaelReed]

Here in Tucson, AZ we use a fairly simple ratings system without having to pay an outside rating organization. We also don’t sync the local scholastic rating with the USCF. During the school year, the local chess organizaton runs 5 scholastic league matches and a few USCF rated scholastic tournaments. Entry fee for each league match is $8, which covers cost of trophies, location, etc.

You can read more at sazchess.org/Scholastic.html

[mnibb]

@MichaelReed

Here in Tucson, AZ we use a fairly simple ratings system without having to pay an outside rating organization. We also don’t sync the local scholastic rating with the USCF. During the school year, the local chess organizaton runs 5 scholastic league matches and a few USCF rated scholastic tournaments. Entry fee for each league match is $8, which covers cost of trophies, location, etc.

You can read more at sazchess.org/Scholastic.html

It is interesting that it seems every time the topic is brought up of young scholastic players playing rated chess, folks seem to be bringing up the unrated chess that is being played in their area. I wonder if we have a good understanding of why the different areas are playing unrated tournaments as opposed to USCF JTP or rated chess.

Is it a belief on organizers part that unrated chess is better for young players because it is better the games not be rated?

Is it an objection to cost? If so, really should check out the JTP program. It is no cost other than the cost to rate games that I think is $.09 per player.

With what seems to be a fully automated system, as an affiliate, it is very easy to register players now. For those kids just learning to play, it is a great way to introduce players to the game, get them a rating, eliminate the barrier of cost. In our area this year we did this for the first time and I believe that roughly 20% more players of the K-3 age group played rated chess than in previous years in an area that has had established scholastic chess for a good number of years. Our biggest problems with the program seem to be that our local organizers had to put max # participant limits on tournaments because our school settings that used to meet our needs are now too small.

In most cases, our organizers are charging $12 per 5 game swiss, but in some cases have had to increase to $15 because of increased facilities charges and because of the loss of facilities that allow us to have concession stands that help us offset costs. I’m pretty sure that after a successful 1st year of JTP, we are going to do it again and some of our organizers are planning more summer chess programs for beginners. We’ll see how that goes.

[Akzidenz]

It is interesting that it seems every time the topic is brought up of young scholastic players playing rated chess, folks seem to be bringing up the unrated chess that is being played in their area. I wonder if we have a good understanding of why the different areas are playing unrated tournaments as opposed to USCF JTP or rated chess.

The barriers to entry–cost and administrative–are very low with unrated chess. It also accommodates kids who are older than third grade.

Here’s our system: A parent decides on Wednesday they want their kid to play in the Saturday unrated tournament. Parent notifies coach. Coach tells the tournament organizer the kid’s name and grade and the kid is entered. Our tournament fee currently is next to nothing, because we’ve got a facility commitment from our schools.

The administrative overhead is lower. The director doesn’t have to worry about matching up kids’ USCF numbers, or getting them registered with USCF, or resolving errors in rating reports. The director can handle administration for all ages in a K-8 tournament in the same way. There’s no treating the K-3 players one way, and the 4-8 players another way.

We run ability/experience-based sections rather than age-based sections. Our highest section includes 3rd through 8th graders. Several sections have 1st-through-5th graders. Can’t do that with JTP.

I’m not sure what we’d gain by switching to JTP. By doing so, would we increase the numbers of kids who move up to full USCF membership and play in rated tournaments? Maybe. If you were playing JTP in second grade and already had a 600 rating, maybe your mom would be more likely to sign you up for a rated tournament.

In our case, that means going to a different town to compete (minimum 30 minute drive to get to the tournament), and competing against a different pool of people. So it’s quite a leap in commitment from the in-town, unrated tournaments, anyway.

Our unrated meets attract many kids who don’t belong at USCF rated tournaments, but who benefit from getting a “taste” of competitive chess.

Full circle to Mark’s question: why do people have their kids play unrated chess? In short, it’s easier for parents, directors and organizers.

The follow-up question might be, “How do we best step these unrated players up to rated play?”

We have a sizable number of kids playing unrated who could get better playing against the tougher competition at rated meets. And the rated meets could use a bigger pool of players.
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[nolan]

One of the possibilities that has been kicked around is a lower rate ‘length of tournament’ membership for younger players.

One suggestion was that it be $7, available only with tournaments submitted online, and that $5 of that would be applicable towards a full year USCF scholastic, youth or young adult memberships if also purchased online within some time period, such as 60 days.

This would probably cost us some first-time memberships, the only question is whether it would increase the number of rated events enough to be revenue positive.