This month’s column (5/25) looks at rulebook variations:
Always useful to review some of the variations that exist within US Chess, although I believe some coverage of Variation 11H1 regarding illegal moves would have been useful too.
In the discussion about rook touched first castling in the article it says “Typically, the main rule issues a warning to the offender before the gavel of justice (making them move the rook instead of castling) descends upon them.”
I don’t see anything in rule 10I2 that says you can simply give the player a warning rather than making them move the rook.
See rules 1C2 (Director discretion), 1C2a. (Standard penalty) and 1C2b. (Non-standard penalties).
I agree - perhaps the reader of the article will be interested enough to look that one up?
I would somewhat agree with this given that each player can only castle once in a game. If you think it is too harsh a penalty to make someone move the rook, I’d highly recommend using the variation.
Unfortunately I think you give the readers too much credit. The main issue with Variation 11H1 is that most TDs think that is the main rule, not the variation. However, given it does not have to be announced in advance, most TDs can also get away with turning a blind eye to any illegal move they see and just say the Variation was in use.
The article refers to sudden death. The editor’s comment to clarify that meant single time control games is a bit inaccurate. A lot of games are 40/90, SD/30 with a 30-second increment or some type of delay throughout. The SD in the second time control is Sudden Death.
Rules 1C2a and 1C2b say “Except where specifically noted in the rules”. Rule 10I2 says “If a player intending to castle touches the rook first, castling is not allowed and the player must move the rook as required by rule 10B” so I don’t see how a TD could just give a warning instead of forcing the player to move the rook.
Just the other day the single SD time control came up in a conversion. I noted that except in big long time control tournaments it is not worth doing if even for just the clock setting/resetting issues. ..and they are probably using FIDE rules??. A lot of the bigger tournaments just do something like G/120;d/5 or G/90;+30. I think the last time we had a local tournament had multiple TC was 15? years ago.
I would like to get clarification on this. In a tournament where the rook touched first castling variation is NOT in use, can a TD actually override what the rule says and just give the player a warning instead of making them move the rook?
1C2. Director discretion.
In areas in which the director has discretion, it is appropriate to be strictest with rules enforcement and penalties in events that are stronger or offer larger prizes. Being harshly penalized over a trivial rules violation can be sufficiently upsetting to deter a beginner from future chess participation.
1C2a. Standard penalty.
Except where specifically noted in the rules, the standard penalty assessed by the director is to add two minutes to the remaining time of the opponent of the player not following the rules of chess.
1C2b. Non-standard penalties.
Except where specifically noted in the rules, the director may assess penalties either more or less severe than the standard penalty (1C2a). It is often more appropriate for a director to issue a warning(s) before applying [1C2a](#_1C2a._Standard_penalty.) in cases involving young or inexperienced players. A director may assess a more severe penalty in cases involving players who repeatedly do not follow the rules of chess.
But as I said earlier in this thread it says “Except where specifically noted in the rules”. The rule specifically says that casting is not allowed if you touch the rook first.
Oops, it appears that you missed the bold faced portion of those rules that I posted–those bold faced words come after the beginning wording. You’re smart and I suspect you get it. I can’t believe that you would force a K-3 player to move his/her rook instead of castling. You’re better than that.
Tim, let me see if I understand:
- In a K-3 section, I gather you would use the variant and not force a rook move. So you’d do the appropriate announcements and all that.
- In an open tournament, I can’t speculate on whether you’d use the variant or not. But if you were NOT using the variant, and a first grader enters and touches his rook first, are you going to rule differently from the adult who touches his rook first? I think that would be problematic.
- I won’t speculate on whether Micah would use the variant for a K-3 section. But I’m quite sure in an open tournament he’s not using it and he isn’t treating the first grader differently. And I think I’d agree with that. It’s pretty much axiomatic that if a kid plays in an adult tournament, they are held to the same standards as much as possible.
- If you had a K-12 section, I’m awfully curious as to whether both of you would handle the rule. It’s not first graders and adults in the same section, but high schoolers and first graders still the principle.
By the way, I didn’t support the rule change to began with, but changing it and permitting the variant seemed a very reasonable compromise.
I follow the rules. If the tournament doesn’t allow rook touched first castling, then I would force any player who touched the rook first to move the rook, period. That’s just following the rule. You can’t choose to not follow the rule just cause you don’t like the rule.
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I actually like the rule. You misunderstand my point; i.e., for those that disagree with the rule they can rely on 1C and its sub variants at their events. Note: to date no one has filed a complaint or appeal about any TD not following the “touch the king first” rule. In fact to avoid any problems I always suggest in my rules workshops that players make a habit of touching the king first and avoiding all the needless drama of touching the rook first.
Based on that logic, a TD could choose not to enforce other rule violations that have a specific penalty listed that they don’t like and just cite 1C and its subrules. That doesn’t make sense.
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[quote=“Mulfish, post:15, topic:58229, full:true”]
Tim, let me see if I understand:
- In a K-3 section, I gather you would use the variant and not force a rook move. So you’d do the appropriate announcements and all that.[/quote]
According to Tim you don’t even need to use the variation. You can just override the specific penalty the main rule specifies by citing rule 1C.
In some circumstances, which is what I was trying to ferret out. I’m not going to debate it in the public further since I’m a moderator. I think Tim would advocate using the variant in a K-3 section. I’m not sure about a K-12 section. I’m curious as to when he would use 1C. I personally would have a problem with using it in a tournament open to adults; the kids should be expected to follow the same rules as the adults in that section. But what he is getting at is that sometimes the benefit of enforcing the rule is outweighed by the long term impact on a small child, possibly costing us a long term player. Where’s the line? For you, I gather it doesn’t exist. For Tim, it might be that in a K-12 section he might give a warning to the first grader.
Personally, I think the benefits of this rule are small and I voted against it at the time. But if it was to be passed (it failed the first time), putting in the variant was the way to go.