New Chess Clock

[Ron_Suarez]

A friend of mine told me about and sent me a link for a video showing a new chess clock that is about to be released.

The clock is being developed by Shelby Lohrman and another fellow, from Texas I believe. The video, well actually now 3 videos, are on YouTube and you most likely can find them by searching the YouTube site for the name of the guy making and demonstrating the clock.

The friend that sent the link told me he expected this clock to be sold by retailers all over, much like the ZMF-II, Chronos, Excalibur and all the others. So, I expect it to be available from your friendly Chess Retailer pretty much anywhere.

I hear from my friend and a reference at the beginning of the video that this clock was at the USATE being demonstrated as a prototype. I hear it might be available from retailers as soon as the end of April. Of this I am not sure though.

I believe the body of this thing is aluminum just like the Chronos. Its body is bigger with a larger base and a ledge just below the display.

The buttons look and sound the same as well. I think those are the same buttons used on IBM typewriters and keyboards.

The display shows the digits being as large as the Chronos and DGT 3000. This new clock has a second row or line showing things like the delay countdown and other information.

It appears to also have all the presets we would want.

And as the DGT 3000 and Chronos have, this clock offers all 3 timing options, Delay, Bronstein and Increment.

It also has a data or setting transfer option where the settings can be transferred from one clock to another. This will make setting time controls at a tournament a lot easier.

This might very well be the best of all clocks put into one.

What do you folks think?

[eastside]

I saw an earlier prototype of this clock last year. I put myself on the list for one then. I doubt my opinion would have changed much, given the time Shelby’s had to improve it since then.

[tmagchesspgh]

Not enough presets.

Looks like it sets better than the Chronos, but still will be a learning curve for players. I would want to see it in the hands of a 9 year old, to see how he handles the device. Having actual language on the setting screens is a definite plus. Still lots of button pushes. The one feature that is great for organizers is to have one clock to set the rest of them. This will save a lot of time.

I hope this comes with a manual and pictures to demonstrate setting features rather than leave it in engineering language.

How much does it cost? If it is in the $100+ range, then all of the DGT clocks will kick will be favored.

[tmagchesspgh]

Just curious, is there any mention of having this clock certified by FIDE for use in competitions? That would likely be a big selling point for European buyers.

[Ron_Suarez]

I heard they were going to seek FIDE certification, but I am not sure.

I don’t know what price it will be but I am sure it will be over $100.

How many presets does it have? I didn’t quite see that in the videos.

[Ron_Suarez]

I believe the Retail Price for this clock will be $149. I understand they put it this high to begin with so they could easily discount or otherwise bring the price down.

[ChessSpawn]

@Ron Suarez

A friend of mine told me about and sent me a link for a video showing a new chess clock that is about to be released.

The clock is being developed by Shelby Lohrman and another fellow, from Texas I believe. The video, well actually now 3 videos, are on YouTube and you most likely can find them by searching the YouTube site for the name of the guy making and demonstrating the clock.

The friend that sent the link told me he expected this clock to be sold by retailers all over, much like the ZMF-II, Chronos, Excalibur and all the others. So, I expect it to be available from your friendly Chess Retailer pretty much anywhere.

I hear from my friend and a reference at the beginning of the video that this clock was at the USATE being demonstrated as a prototype. I hear it might be available from retailers as soon as the end of April. Of this I am not sure though.

I believe the body of this thing is aluminum just like the Chronos. Its body is bigger with a larger base and a ledge just below the display.

The buttons look and sound the same as well. I think those are the same buttons used on IBM typewriters and keyboards.

The display shows the digits being as large as the Chronos and DGT 3000. This new clock has a second row or line showing things like the delay countdown and other information.

It appears to also have all the presets we would want.

And as the DGT 3000 and Chronos have, this clock offers all 3 timing options, Delay, Bronstein and Increment.

It also has a data or setting transfer option where the settings can be transferred from one clock to another. This will make setting time controls at a tournament a lot easier.

This might very well be the best of all clocks put into one.

What do you folks think?

Will look for it. As for Chronos…such a nightmare to set. I say that at the owner of one…

[tmagchesspgh]

$149?! Are you kidding? If all of my digital clocks went kaput, I would not spend $149 to replace one. I would go and get my Insa or Coldfield analog clock and suffer not having delay or increment if my opponent did not have a digital clock.

I cannot imagine an organizer spending $149 per clock so that he can have the quick set feature of this clock to set a bunch of similar clocks for a competition where he provides all of the equipment. 40 clocks would set you back over $6000. Whoa!

[Ron_Suarez]

@tmagchesspgh

$149?! Are you kidding? If all of my digital clocks went kaput, I would not spend $149 to replace one. I would go and get my Insa or Coldfield analog clock and suffer not having delay or increment if my opponent did not have a digital clock.

I cannot imagine an organizer spending $149 per clock so that he can have the quick set feature of this clock to set a bunch of similar clocks for a competition where he provides all of the equipment. 40 clocks would set you back over $6000. Whoa!

Tom, don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just reporting what I have heard.

When my friend told me that’s what they were originally going to make it $129. I guess that the Chess guy of the 2, Shelby, was showing the clock and his partner was there as well, USATE, standing a bit back and watching. I guess the reception was so good and when the price was quoted and no one even seemed to blink at that, the non-chess guy who is the manufacturer told the chess guy that they should set it at $149 and if it seemed to high they could always lower it. But, if they started at the lower number it would be bad if they tried to increase it.

Now, I agree with you. That price is too high. The Chronos clocks are priced at $115 on a couple of sites that I checked just now. And the DGT 3000 is priced from $100 - $110.

I don’t see a suggested retail price anywhere for the Chronos, so these places can charge whatever they think and/or can get for them.

The DGT site has the DGT 3000 priced at 90 Euros which is $102.46 by today’s exchange rate. It looks like the retailers in this country are sticking by that and not going any lower.

Seeing that it’s still 2 months or more before they are out for sale, they still might see the marketing and promotional light and set the price lower.

I still don’t think they even have a name for the clock.

[tmagchesspgh]

Ron, maybe they will read this thread and find a more reasonable price. I looked at the youtube videos. The design is not exceptionally eye popping. People will probably confuse it with the old Chronos with its black buttons that everyone used to double tap to make sure they hit the clock. Setting it does look a little easier, not entirely intuitive, but easier.

I bet they will offer it in different colors. One distinctive color, say a deep rich green to match most vinyl chess boards would be fine. That would distinguish if from the DGT NA red, white, and blue, and the colors of the other clocks. We will see.

[mregan]

@Ron Suarez

The DGT site has the DGT 3000 priced at 90 Euros which is $102.46 by today’s exchange rate. It looks like the retailers in this country are sticking by that and not going any lower.

Ron,
You need to subtract the VAT to correctly price what it would cost to buy the DGT 3000. That makes the price 74 Euros or $85 dollars. That’s a retail price that you could pay today (you’d have to have it shipped from The Netherlands though). It should be that as the lower Euro gets priced in, we’ll see lower retail prices for the DGT 3000.
Mike

[Smythe_Dakota]

Well, I like some of what I see in the Lohrman clock.

I like, for example, that instead of having dozens of “modes”, it simply asks each basic question, one at a time: How many time controls? How many moves? How many minutes? How many increment seconds? How many delay seconds? I’ve never really understood why chess clocks need “modes” at all.

However, in these times, I’d really like a display that resembles a computer screen:

[size=200]23:45[/size]

(Phooey, this forum allows font sizes only up to 200.) It could be in Arial Bold, rather than using segmented displays for the digits.

And why should there be two separate displays, one for white and one for black, with the metal case separating the two? How about a single lo-o-o-o-ong display, the entire width of the clock? There could be a thick black vertical bar displayed in the middle to separate the two sides. During setup, this vertical bar (and the clock times) would disappear, in favor of a full-screen Q&A session to specify the time-control info.

As it is, this new clock can be thought of as a slightly improved Chronos. Over the years, the Chronos has always been my favorite, but in these times, the technology should be upticked a bit.

Bill Smythe

[Michael_A_Murray]

@Smythe Dakota

Well, I like some of what I see in the Lohrman clock.

I like, for example, that instead of having dozens of “modes”, it simply asks each basic question, one at a time: How many time controls? How many moves? How many minutes? How many increment seconds? How many delay seconds? I’ve never really understood why chess clocks need “modes” at all.

Bingo. Given the amount of software embedded in today’s cheap phone or child’s tablet computer, there seems little reason to encapsulate every variable in a finite number of “modes” requiring documentation external to the device for intelligent selection.

[eastside]

@MikeMurray

@Smythe Dakota

Well, I like some of what I see in the Lohrman clock.

I like, for example, that instead of having dozens of “modes”, it simply asks each basic question, one at a time: How many time controls? How many moves? How many minutes? How many increment seconds? How many delay seconds? I’ve never really understood why chess clocks need “modes” at all.

Bingo. Given the amount of software embedded in today’s cheap phone or child’s tablet computer, there seems little reason to encapsulate every variable in a finite number of “modes” requiring documentation external to the device for intelligent selection.

I remember the complaints when CCA went to 10-second delay. The #1 problem players expressed (to me, anyway)? It had nothing to do with lengthening the game, misconceptions about having to keep score every move, or anything like that. The biggest problem was that all the presets on all the clocks included a 5-second delay…and the players did not want to go through the “hassle” of manually setting their delay.

Ron Popeil made a small fortune off the phrase, “set it and forget it”. He understood what game clock makers understand as well - people would rather find a preset and stick with it than learn all the ins and outs of manually adjusting something.

Now, I prefer to manually adjust my clocks, so I don’t have much use for the presets. But, man, the complaints I get when I’m working a tournament with a time control that doesn’t match any preset on any clock…

[eastside]

@mregan

@Ron Suarez

The DGT site has the DGT 3000 priced at 90 Euros which is $102.46 by today’s exchange rate. It looks like the retailers in this country are sticking by that and not going any lower.

Ron,
You need to subtract the VAT to correctly price what it would cost to buy the DGT 3000. That makes the price 74 Euros or $85 dollars. That’s a retail price that you could pay today (you’d have to have it shipped from The Netherlands though). It should be that as the lower Euro gets priced in, we’ll see lower retail prices for the DGT 3000.
Mike

The DGT price for the 3000, minus the VAT, is €74.37, which is what I paid when I ordered mine. The Euro has weakened further since then, but my guess is that DGT’s price won’t drop any time soon.

(Of course, I still ended up paying almost €100 for the clock, thanks to the €25 shipping charge. Unfortunately, that’s the low end of the shipping options the vendor offers.)

[tzs]

@Smythe Dakota

And why should there be two separate displays, one for white and one for black, with the metal case separating the two? How about a single lo-o-o-o-ong display, the entire width of the clock? There could be a thick black vertical bar displayed in the middle to separate the two sides. During setup, this vertical bar (and the clock times) would disappear, in favor of a full-screen Q&A session to specify the time-control info.

The thing about chess clocks is that generally for any modern clock, there are only three things that are not cheap standard commodity parts. These are the printed circuit board, the case, and the display.

For all practical purposes, though, the printed circuit board can be treated as a commodity part, because the process of getting a custom board made is fast and cheap.

So that just leaves the case and the display. The rest of a modern chess clock will just be (1) a standard microcontroller, which typically will have one a single chip a processor, RAM, Flash memory to hold the program, and some EEPROM that can be used to hold persistent data (such as the clock’s serial number and saved settings). It will also have a bunch of pins for input and output of digital (and sometimes analog) signals used to hook up to sensors and to control things. (2) a few buttons for the interface. These can be hooked up directly to input pins on the microcontroller. (3) LED indicators. These may be hooked directly to output pins on the microcontroller, but those often are quite limited on how much power they can supply, so the output pins might be hooked to a transistor which in turn drives the LED. (4) Possibly some kind of LCD controller chip. Some LCD panel modules will have a controller built in hook directly to a couple of the pins on the microcontroller.

I don’t know a lot about cases, but from what people who do have told me, getting a custom case like the Chronos case or this new clock’s case is not a big deal.

The display is the hard part. For a clock like the DGT 3000, that’s custom all the way. No manufacturer had that LCD panel just sitting around in their catalog waiting for someone to come along who needed dual full timer displays with all the various flag and status and other counters that the 3000 has. A small company in a small market is probably not going to be able to afford that.

And so the makers of clocks like the Chronos and the ZMF-II make do with commodity displays. They use 7-segment displays meant for use in regular digital clocks. No customization at all. That is why clocks like those have two separate displays of one clock, rather than one long display with two clocks. There simply aren’t many devices that need two side by side clock displays, especially in the size that you’d want in a chess clock.

Although the new clock has a more complicated display (each panel has a 7-segment style clock on top and a 14-segment type alpha-numeric on the bottom), I think it is still a commodity part (although I have not been able to find it or anything similar after a bit of searching at a couple major electronics distributors). They are working with what is available, and so they have to go with separate side by side displays.

[kevin_bachler]

@tzs

@Smythe Dakota

And why should there be two separate displays, one for white and one for black, with the metal case separating the two? How about a single lo-o-o-o-ong display, the entire width of the clock? There could be a thick black vertical bar displayed in the middle to separate the two sides. During setup, this vertical bar (and the clock times) would disappear, in favor of a full-screen Q&A session to specify the time-control info.

The thing about chess clocks is that generally for any modern clock, there are only three things that are not cheap standard commodity parts. These are the printed circuit board, the case, and the display.

For all practical purposes, though, the printed circuit board can be treated as a commodity part, because the process of getting a custom board made is fast and cheap.

So that just leaves the case and the display. The rest of a modern chess clock will just be (1) a standard microcontroller, which typically will have one a single chip a processor, RAM, Flash memory to hold the program, and some EEPROM that can be used to hold persistent data (such as the clock’s serial number and saved settings). It will also have a bunch of pins for input and output of digital (and sometimes analog) signals used to hook up to sensors and to control things. (2) a few buttons for the interface. These can be hooked up directly to input pins on the microcontroller. (3) LED indicators. These may be hooked directly to output pins on the microcontroller, but those often are quite limited on how much power they can supply, so the output pins might be hooked to a transistor which in turn drives the LED. (4) Possibly some kind of LCD controller chip. Some LCD panel modules will have a controller built in hook directly to a couple of the pins on the microcontroller.

I don’t know a lot about cases, but from what people who do have told me, getting a custom case like the Chronos case or this new clock’s case is not a big deal.

The display is the hard part. For a clock like the DGT 3000, that’s custom all the way. No manufacturer had that LCD panel just sitting around in their catalog waiting for someone to come along who needed dual full timer displays with all the various flag and status and other counters that the 3000 has. A small company in a small market is probably not going to be able to afford that.

And so the makers of clocks like the Chronos and the ZMF-II make do with commodity displays. They use 7-segment displays meant for use in regular digital clocks. No customization at all. That is why clocks like those have two separate displays of one clock, rather than one long display with two clocks. There simply aren’t many devices that need two side by side clock displays, especially in the size that you’d want in a chess clock.

Although the new clock has a more complicated display (each panel has a 7-segment style clock on top and a 14-segment type alpha-numeric on the bottom), I think it is still a commodity part (although I have not been able to find it or anything similar after a bit of searching at a couple major electronics distributors). They are working with what is available, and so they have to go with separate side by side displays.

Alternatively, we could get chess to be really popular so that tens of millions of chess clocks are purchased annually.