Paul Hoffman's book, and sore-losing in chess

All Things Chess
1

King’s Gambit… Not a very flattering portrayal of the chess world, but accurate for the most part… I’m especially interested in his “sore-loser” stories. Time for confession. In 1973 or so, as a 17-year old, i lost a dead-drawn ending. Instead of gracefully resigning, I throw my king across the board like a bowling ball, and knock over some “pins”, and just leave the board…

 Fast forward to 2004. I'm in the chess section of Border's books, and who's standing next to me. The guy I threw the king at! Don't ask me how i remembered him. But no, the story does not have a nice ending. I was too shy, chicken, or embarrassed to apologize to the guy for what I had done 30 years before!

I'm happy to say it's the only sore-losing story i have, and hopefully, a young immature 17-year old can be excused. Other than that, I've been a gracious loser and humble winner.
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But one who enjoys telling us all about it. :slight_smile: (Keep the stories coming … )

Bill Smythe

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I’ve never done anything that dramatic. I’ve gotten a little grumpy at losing sometimes, but I’ve always tried to be polite about it to my opponents. I think the worst I’ve ever said or done was when someone said “Good game” to me after a particularly brutal loss, I responded with “for you” or something like that.

The worst behavior I’ve seen at a tournament was at the Miami Open this past September. There were a couple of incidents there.

In the first one, there were two guys playing at a table near me who got into a relatively quiet position with very few pieces and lots of pawns, all locked up across the board. It was looking pretty drawish, but I’m no expert (this was in the U1600 section, after all). So one guy offers a draw, and the other guy decides to play on. I think the first guy offered the draw a couple of times on subsequent moves, then started to get upset. He actually stands up at one point, and although he’s still trying to whisper in the tourney hall, he’s like “It’s a draw, dammit!” in a pretty loud whisper so everyone around heard him. Eventually, the other guy agreed, and they quit playing, but I thought that was pretty rude. When you enter a game with a time control, you agree to play for as long as the clock is running, or until a checkmate or forced draw. Your opponent has the right to play on, even if you think they should agree to a draw or resign, to get it over with.

In the final round of the Miami Open, there was a much worse incident. I think it was in the lowest section, but I was nowhere near that area, so I’m not entirely sure. There was an adult playing a kid and at one point, the adult got really upset at one of the spectators. There was real yelling this time, and it went on for several minutes. It sounded like he was accusing the guy watching of helping the kid who was playing. A TD came over and calmed things down, and the game ended shortly afterwards. Then there was more yelling, and the adult player had to be “escorted” out, but on the way out, it turned physically violent, with the TD having to break it up. I was still busy playing my game, so I didn’t catch all the details, but I heard the police were called.

Kinda makes the king throwing thing seem pretty tame by comparison, doesn’t it? :wink:

–Fromper

4

I don’t recall ever having done anything rude or impolite at a chess tournament. I do however remember an incident from many years ago that was rude. It is the first round of a small tournament & of course there are a lot of mismatches. During the middle of the round the entire tournament hears the higher rated player (in a loud voice) ask his opponent: “Would you like to resign?”

Now as it turns out the lower rated had a lone King and pawns to the higher rated player’s 4 minor pieces, plus a pawn that would soon promote. Still it was not exactly what one would call the best of chess etiquete. Also, I am sure you have heard players at tournaments either state “I had a won game”, or “you were busted” to their opponent after losing.

Larry S. Cohen

“I had a won game, but I failed to make the winning moves.”

5

Believe it or not, I essentially had this happen to me in a CORRESPONDENCE game. I was a pawn up in an ending with scant material. When I sent my last move, I felt that if the person made the correct move I would offer the draw but if he played another plausible move I had good winning chances. He found a third option. He simply declared the game a draw. When I politely asked him to make a move if he wished to offer a draw, he got indignant and complained to the TS that I was insisting on playing out a drawn position. When the TS agreed with me, the guy forfeited out of the section, and the club. Strange guy.

I had another bizarre situation in an OTB event. I was mildly short on time, not to mention position, when the game to my right concluded (there was an empty space between our games). The players started pushing the pieces in a silent but distracting postmortem. When my gestures to cease went unheeded, I reached over to more demonstrably signal they needed to quit, but I lost my balance and pushed the shoulder of the middle school aged player. This upset the pieces, but not the player. His opponent, however, gave me a loud tongue-lashing in his native Spanish. The only word I understood was “bebe”, but his message was clear enough. He went on for a full minute, distracting everyone, and quit just as the TD came up the stairs to investigate. A move or two later I blundered, putting myself out of my misery. Naturally, in the last round I got paired with the middle-schooler, who was very good natured about the whole incident.

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I’m reminded of one game I played against a player rated three classes lower. It was a queen and dark-squared bishop ending where we each had e, f, g and h pawns and I had an extra b-pawn one square from queening. He covered the queening square with his bishop and queen and said “draw!”. I silently made a move. He looked questioningly at me, made another move and said “I don’t see how you can make any progress”. I kept playing quietly and he resigned four moves later.

We were never again paired with each other but we did cross paths at a number of tournaments. He was a nice guy that happened to have drastically mis-analyzed that position.

7

You just reminded me of a similar story. This was in the Banker’s League (New York) in the 80’s. It’s an opposite colored bishop ending, but i’m like two pawns up, with a fairly routine win.
Suddenly, my opponent makes a move, stands up, and exclaims “Opposite colored Bishops. IT’S A DRAW.” I looked at him, and, as Clint Eastwood would do with clenched teeth, I said slowly “SIT…DOWN”. The game lasted only a few more moves.

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I’ve been wondering about the “humble winner” thing. Let me run one by you guys.

Took the kid to a scholastic recently. It was not her day for chess, because she got upset by lower-rated player. They both came out of the tournament room, and the other parent says in a huge booming voice in front of everyone “FREDDIE, WAY TO GO BEATING HER! SHE WAS RATED SO HIGH!”

My kid felt about 1 foot tall.

I wasn’t quite sure what to say to my kid. Yeah, it sucks for someone to rub it in like that. But, when a soccer goalie gets scored on, the parents on the scoring team cheer, and no one thinks a thing of it.

Then again, there’s something particularly wretched about that moment when the two young competitors come out of the tournament room and all the parents are eagerly waiting for them. For me, this was a reminder to save the high fives for when we’re back in the team room.

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I don’t think that was rubbing it in. Sounds more like commending their child on a tremendous upset. I would probably have done the same thing, albeit at a much lower volume level.

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  The parent showed no class, sorry, I don't buy your analogy, and I feel sorry for your kid.  If a kid scores a goal, and the parent cheers, that's great. If the parent yells out "you really stuck it to that goalie", that's not great.... That could have just said to his kid "congratulations, you played great" or something like that. 
 I would have said to that parent "you've got NO class" if I were you. And I hope your kid plays that other kids, beats him/her, and you get the chance to whisper in that parent's ear "wow, your kid got the pants beat off him, didn't he"!
11

Agreed that the parent showed no class, but that is no excuse for showing no class either. I have had a couple of students in this situation. The best thing to do is to pull the child aside and ask them what they think and feel about how they have been treated. This is a good teaching moment for a lesson on real sportsmanship.

   If someone is that excited to beat you, that means you are a real player and someone to be respected.  The child has to be told that he will face more moments like this in life as well as chess.  He/she should be told that the other person must envy her a lot if they are so ecstatic about a temporary victory.  I usually ask my students what they are going to do about it.  The usual response is to work harder, to study more, and to win the next time. And how will they act toward the opponent?  With grace, with sportsmanship.  If they don't do that, then they are just as bad as their opponent.

   It is very important that coaches teach their students to win and lose with the right attitude.  You do not have to hate your opponent.  You do not have to make fun of him/her if you win.  It is a very bad American attitude to show up your opponent, to humiliate him.  There are too many bad examples in sports of this type of behavior.  What happens afterward?  Don't these bad sports get clobbered time after time?  Players sometimes don't realize that when you make an enemy, everyone is out to get you.

   I tell my students to shake hands before and after the game; to analyze the game if there is time; and to wish their opponents good luck in the rest of the tournament.  For kids, it is important that they make friends.  Sometimes these friendships last forever.  This social aspect is one of the most important parts of the game.
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  My comment about rubbing a revenge win in someone's face applies to the adult, not the child, if you read my post. I'm sorry, I don't buy your "turn the other cheek" attitude when it comes to a PARENT rubbing a win in an opposing CHILD's face. 
Your replies that you "ask the child how he feels", wreaks of the modern psychology of treating children exactly like adults. This is so wrong,, and leads to the behavioral problems that we're all too familiar with.
It's difficult enough for adults to have their "nose rubbed into the sand"; for a child, it's impossible. I'm not a chess teacher, but i would use that as motivation to play better chess, and in fact would hope that my child played that kid again. And when my kid won, i'd have a private word to that other parent. Sorry, this is the real world, not the fantasy world of "tell me how you feel".
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Many years ago ( 40 or so) , I was ask by an elderly gentleman at the apt. Complex pool, if I knew how to play chess, I told him I knew how the pieces moved, but had never really played. To make a long story short he invited me to his apt. to play, his wife made snacks, and ice tea( waste of good tea) And we played, he was master strength, so after many months, and about 600 games (he never showed me anything I just caught on somewhat) one game he hung his queen, after looking to see if it was a trap, and seeing none, I took the queen with my bishop, he got so mad he turned over the board, and stomped out of the house. I was shocked, and went home. He did not speak to me for about 2 months, though we would pass each other about 3 times a week , then one day out of the blue, he knocked on my apt. door, and said “What! did you quit playing chess”. After losing another 400 or 500 games, I took a job in another state. I always said, I would never get that upset over a game of chess. The moral of the story is, I still can not play chess very well, but I am a good loser. :laughing: :laughing:

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Karchad, I just can’t buy your premises or your attitude.

First, the incident that Azidenz related shows a parent who has no class at worst, but probably one who is just oblivious to others. He was more excited about his kid’s win and wasn’t thinking clearly how this might sound.

Second, as a coach, I am concerned how my students feel and approach life as well as chess. As I pointed out, I would ask how they would move forward. Their feelings and attitude affect their motivation to work. I deal with kids who are 7 - 14 years of age. In this age range, they are a bundle of feelings that need to be addressed. It is important to toughen them up but not make them become sadists. Their parents and I want them to grow up to be good sports, regardless of the behavior of others. It’s not pop psychology, but sound practice when dealing with children.

Third, confronting a parent over his/her behavior, even quietly, usually has no effect. Their attitudes are deeply ingrained and unlikely to change. Very few will be shamed into changing. As a friend of mine from Tennessee usually says, you can’t change a pig into a unicorn.

Finally, poor sportsmanship is becoming way too common in this “real world.” I have seen GM’s throw pieces across a room, the cross on a king bitten off, pieces dumped into a garbage can, and accusations that a player was “lucky” among other infractions. Heaven forbid that a player would resign gracefully when his flag falls or even call his own flag. Rather there is a race to the rulebook. Many adults, and even coaches, are poor examples for kids. Better to act like the little 8 year old girl I teach who tells her opponent “Good game!” when she loses and consoles her opponent when she wins.

15 
    I am certain there are other chess teachers that instill the same qualities you speak of. I was playing a young lady about 10 or 11 years old last year in a tournament in Stillwater Ok. I was black, so I played the C.C.  defense. After about 12 moves and this young lady was still making book moves, I thought she definitely knows what she is doing. To make a long story short, she beat me after about 40 moves. She stood up, reached out her hand, and said " You played a very good game Mr. Payne,  I really enjoyed it, thank you"  Turned and walked away. I thought to myself,  it was a pleasure to play someone with such good manners. I would have liked to win, but I am sure one day I will hear more about this young lady, if I live long enough. But if I see her across the board this year,  I am going to fain a headache! :laughing:  :laughing:
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    I am certain there are other chess teachers that instill the same qualities you speak of. I was playing a young lady about 10 or 11 years old last year in a tournament in Stillwater Ok. I was black, so I played the C.K.  defense. After about 12 moves and this young lady was still making book moves, I thought she definitely knows what she is doing. To make a long story short, she beat me after about 40 moves. She stood up, reached out her hand, and said " You played a very good game Mr. Payne,  I really enjoyed it, thank you"  Turned and walked away. I thought to myself,  it was a pleasure to play someone with such good manners. I would have liked to win, but I am sure one day I will hear more about this young lady, if I live long enough. But if I see her across the board this year,  I am going to fain a headache! :laughing:  :laughing:
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I think you’re interpreting my comments in a harsher connotation than perhaps they were intended, and perhaps that’s my Brooklyn way of writing. I see nothing wrong with “correcting” a parent’s arrogant attitude if his loud mouth hurts my kid. And I see nothing wrong with motivating a kid who has lost a game to want to “make up for it”. No, i’m not advocating that the kid become a wild man… What’s wrong with wanting to win a game against someone who beat you, is that so wrong???
I agree with much of what you say, but when a kid is hurt by an obnoxious adult attitude, I don’t think it is helped with merely “let’s discuss your feelings”.
From what little I read of your comments, I admire the work you do in chess.

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I am glad to hear more emphasis on sportsmanship. When I won a game, especially an important game, i was so happy internally that i never saw any need whatsoever to gloat. I mentioned my only sore-losing incident (which started this thread). It was never repeated.

Lest you think lack of sportsmanship is some sort of recent attitude, my dad coached little league back in the early 1960’s. He did it one year, and that was it. Threats, phone calls (why isnt my kid playing more, he’s the next Willie Mays), lying, cheating, yes, even bribery. All for a trophy;back in the 60’s none of us had money for any significant prizes. My dad, who would have been a great coach (knowledgable, patient), but never did it again.

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You meet the person that made you act like a “sore-loser” 30-years ago and you don’t apologize to him?
I think that you didn’t apologize because you weren’t sure if that was the person you threw the king at.
What would have happened if you talked and apologize is that you would have had a good laugh. I mean, fate put you next to him and you blew it! :blush:

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This is not about sportsmanship, but it is about manners. When I was a teenager, at a simultaneous exhibition I asked a player what he thought of a particular move that he had not made. In a voice for everyone to hear, calling me by name, he said he didn’t need my suggestions.