Powerful Monarch Chess, rules and puzzles

[Smythe_Dakota]

@kbachler

… If White castles, isn’t he moving into mate?

Kevin, you invented this variation, so you should know better.

After castling, white isn’t even in check, let alone mated, because his king is protected, preventing him from being in check from the black king.

Bill Smythe

[Smythe_Dakota]

@I

… At every stage of the castling maneuver – Ke1, Kf1, Kg1, Rf1 – the white rook is defending the white king, therefore the white king is never in check. …

@In response

It sort of depends on how you define “the castling maneuver”. My definition is, you pick up the king with one hand, pick up the rook with the other hand, and put them down, perhaps king first, perhaps rook first. …

First of all, your definition is faulty. You are supposed to move the king and the rook with the same hand, and you are supposed to move the king first.

Aside from that –

(“Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”)

… While the rook is in the air, it’s not guarding g1, f1, or e1.

With a “normal” (non-castling) move, the “position” while the pieces are in the air is of no importance. In the following position, if white plays Re1xRa1 –

– it does not matter that the white king is in check from the black rook while the white rook is in the air between e1 and a1. All that matters is the starting position, the ending position, and the nature of the move (was it “rook-like”? Yes.).

With castling, it’s a bit different, because of the special rule that you can’t castle through check. You almost need to view Ke1-g1 as a temporary move from e1 to f1 followed by another from f1 to g1. During the temporary stop at f1, the white king must not be in check.

Applying this logic to the Powerful Monarch position at the top of this post, we see that the white king is not in check during its temporary stop at f1, because at that moment it is defended by the white rook at h1.

Bill Smythe

[bruce_leverett]

@Smythe Dakota

@I

… At every stage of the castling maneuver – Ke1, Kf1, Kg1, Rf1 – the white rook is defending the white king, therefore the white king is never in check. …

@In response

It sort of depends on how you define “the castling maneuver”. My definition is, you pick up the king with one hand, pick up the rook with the other hand, and put them down, perhaps king first, perhaps rook first. …

First of all, your definition is faulty. You are supposed to move the king and the rook with the same hand, and you are supposed to move the king first.

Aside from that –

(“Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”)

… While the rook is in the air, it’s not guarding g1, f1, or e1.

With a “normal” (non-castling) move, the “position” while the pieces are in the air is of no importance. In the following position, if white plays Re1xRa1 –

– it does not matter that the white king is in check from the black rook while the white rook is in the air between e1 and a1. All that matters is the starting position, the ending position, and the nature of the move (was it “rook-like”? Yes.).

With castling, it’s a bit different, because of the special rule that you can’t castle through check. You almost need to view Ke1-g1 as a temporary move from e1 to f1 followed by another from f1 to g1. During the temporary stop at f1, the white king must not be in check.

Applying this logic to the Powerful Monarch position at the top of this post, we see that the white king is not in check during its temporary stop at f1, because at that moment it is defended by the white rook at h1.

Bill Smythe

I could have written my description of the castling maneuver to specify only one hand, and it would have been legal and would have posed the same problem.

(The illegality of using both hands, and the illegality of touching the rook first, both seem like odd digressions in the discussion of a fairy chess variant. It’s kind of like talking about the time control or the role of the TD.)

Reading over your reply, it occurs to me that the rule of original-chess to the effect that “you can’t castle out of check” does not apply to PM chess. If your rook can see your king, you aren’t in check, therefore you don’t have to worry about castling out of check. Moreover, of course you don’t have to worry about castling into check. So I suppose that castling through check could be excused, or maybe, just to be difficult, it could be made illegal. These rules weren’t handed down on stone tablets. Do whichever you prefer.

[kevin_bachler]

@Smythe Dakota

@kbachler

… If White castles, isn’t he moving into mate?

Kevin, you invented this variation, so you should know better.

After castling, white isn’t even in check, let alone mated, because his king is protected, preventing him from being in check from the black king.

Bill Smythe

But during castling (K moves first to g1, he’s defended; Rook lift - ?) he’s mated. And mate ends the game.

[jwiewel]

But what about:

Does Rg8 break the check by protecting the white king? Or would the b7 pawn need to be eliminated so that Rb1 can break the check?

[Smythe_Dakota]

@jwiewel

… Does Rg8 break the check by protecting the white king? …

No, because it does not protect the white king.

Or would the b7 pawn need to be eliminated so that Rb1 can break the check?

Yes, Rb1 would break the check.

Bill Smythe

[Smythe_Dakota]

@kbachler

… But during castling (K moves first to g1, he’s defended; Rook lift - ?) he’s mated. And mate ends the game.

The rook doesn’t have to lift to go from h1 to f1. It just materializes instantly on f1, perhaps through a 4th-dimensional time warp or something.

Bill Smythe

[Smythe_Dakota]

@bruce_leverett

… (The illegality of using both hands, and the illegality of touching the rook first, both seem like odd digressions in the discussion of a fairy chess variant. It’s kind of like talking about the time control or the role of the TD.) …

True. Sorry about that.

… Reading over your reply, it occurs to me that the rule of original-chess to the effect that “you can’t castle out of check” does not apply to PM chess. …

I disagree.

… If your rook can see your king, you aren’t in check, therefore you don’t have to worry about castling out of check. …

You don’t have to worry about castling through check, either, because your rook can still see your king as it moves through f1.

Please recall that having your king defended means it cannot be in check from your opponent’s king, but it can still be in check from your opponent’s other piece(s).

Bill Smythe