Well…, at least not publicly.
If you been behind the scenes at any of the Nationals you know that there is some good natured teasing that goes on privately.
One particular TD has sometimes had the chief TD prepare special stapled multi-page result slips prepared for that TD to use when documenting a dispute (as opposed to most TDs being able to use just a portion of the back of a standard result slip). That is the only TD I’ve seen carry a stapler at multiple tournaments for use when going over a page on the documentation and needing to attach a second sheet.
Granted, that particular type of embarrassment is related to just how thorough the TD is for documentation as opposed to anything that would be related to an error.
Assume the prizes are now 1st $25, 2nd $20, 3rd $10, top under 1400 $17 (total prize fund $72). And let’s assume we have the following:
Jon 1600 4.0
Jane 1380 3.5
Mike 1200 3.0
Mary 1550 2.5
Tim 1250 2.0
All others score 1.5 or less
What is the correct prize distribution, and why?
Jon gets 1st place of $25 for having lone top score. Jane get $20 for clear 2nd place, she is entitled to the highes prize between 2nd place or top score under 1400 rating. Mike scored 3.0, though he’s under 1400, Rule 32B1 states one cash prize per winner and he is entitled to the most valulable of the two. Although tim scored 2.0 he’s the next highest under 1400 so he takes home the $17.00. Mary would get $10
Question 2:
Now, let’s suppose the prize fund is 1st $25, 2nd $20, 3rd $17, top under 1400 $10. We’ll change Mary’s score from 2.5 to 3.0:
Jon 1600 4.0
Jane 1380 3.5
Mike 1200 3.0
Mary 1550 3.0
All others score 2.5 or less
What is the correct prize distribution, and why?
Jon gets $25 for placing clear 1st. Jane gets $20 for placing clear 2nd. 32B3 Applies here for 3rd. Sum and divide eventy 27/ 2 = $13.50 each for Mike and Mary.
Question 3:
Finally, let’s suppose the prize fund is (as in question 1) 1st $25, 2nd $20, 3rd $10, top under 1400 $17. The results are as above (Mike and Mary tied with 3.0 each). What is the correct prize distribution, and why?
1st would go to Jon for $25, second to Jane for $20.
Mike qualifies for both but get the more valuable one so he would get the $17 and Mary would get the 10?
I don’t think this is correct. You are right that Jon wins the $25 1st place prize and Jane wins the $20 2nd place prize. Mike is eligible for both the $10 3rd place prize and the $17 U1400 prize. Mary then wins the $10 3rd place prize (even though she is technically in 4th place in the standings). Tim wins nothing.
I think you may have forgotten to award Mike his prize in your analysis and instead awarded it to Tim. Or, perhaps more likely, you forgot that you had already awarded the U1400 prize to Mike. Including Tim in the list of top scorers was a red herring intended to throw you off.
Very good. But let me “spin the gears” a bit more. You previously mentioned that rule 32B1 specifies no more than one prize per player. Now, Mary’s rating of 1550 excludes her from the U1400 prize. The only way to pay each player $13.50 is to pay Mike the $10 U1400 prize money plus $3.50 from the $17 3rd place prize, and to then pay Mary the remaining $13.50 of the 3rd place prize.
Question: How do you reconcile this with rule 32B1?
Are you asking me or telling me?
Yes, you are completely correct. Many organizers will make their class prizes less than the place prizes to avoid this situation.
While the rulebook doesn’t say this, there are two general principles that govern cash prize distribution:
Equal performances (equal scores) receive equal amounts unless players eligible for restricted prizes (that is, prizes for which not all players in the section are eligible) win more by renouncing any claim to the general prizes.
Higher scores receive higher amounts than lower scores.
Checking whether players eligible for restricted prizes win more if they renounce any claim to the prizes for which they are not eligible can become complicated if there are many class prizes. For example, if you were to have overall place prizes, an under 1600 prize, an under 1400 prize, and an under 1200 prize, and if there is a tie among many players, you need to check:
Do the players rated under 1200 win more by just dividing the U1200 prize(s) among themselves?
Do the players rated under 1400 (which includes those rated under 1200) win more by dividing the U1400 and U1200 prizes among themselves?
Do the players rated under 1600 (which includes those under 1400 and those under 1200) win more by dividing the “under” prizes among themselves and ignoring the overall place prizes?
Generally that happens when there are a lot of players not eligible for the “under” prizes and only a few players who are eligible for the “under” prizes involved in the tie.
All right, here’s another question. Suppose the prize fund is 1st $80, 2nd $60, top class A (1800-1999) $40, top class B (1600-1799) $40. (Note the “class” prizes as opposed to “under” prizes.)
Jon 2200 4.0
Jane 2100 3.5
Mary 1950 3.5
Mike 1750 3.5
Tim 1980 3.0
Tiffany 1780 3.0
All others score 2.5 or less
Um, why would you give the under-1400 prize to Tim rather than Mike? Both are under 1400, neither has been awarded any part of any other prize, and Mike outscored Tim.
Sorry, it wouldn’t have gone to Tim. I meant Mike. It was more of a clerical error.
I’ll check the other questions out when I get home after work this evening. I appreciate this. I feel more confident about it and that I’m at least on track.
I do have one more question. For prize distribution. Using the examples we’ve been looking at. Does it matter if the tournament was divided into sections?
For example if you have a two section tournament for players under 1200 and say a 1199 enters and plays 4 players rated 700, 800, 900 1000 and beats them all, and gets 4 points. He would get 1st prize overall (assuming no one else tied his 4 score). So he would get first over players rated 1700, 1900, etc… playing in the open section who scored 3.5 or 3?
For all practical purposes, each section is an independent tournament all to itself. The players in a section are paired among themselves, and they compete for that section’s prizes. What happens in one section does not affect other sections in the tournament.
(Of course, there are exceptions. For example, in scholastic events, one will sometimes see “team” prizes where the results for all the players from the same school are combined across sections to award “team” prizes. That’s why I wrote “for all practical purposes” at the beginning. For most events, however, the “practical purposes” apply.)
Thanks, that helps clear it up.
Let me give a sincere thank you to all of you who are helping with these questions. Being from a rural area and no local td to learn from (closest one that I know of is Mr. Dillard about 3+ hour drive) it sure helps to have you guys a resource.
You can even have a different entry fee in the different sections.
And 1st prize in the upper section can be different from 1st prize in the lower section. In fact, IMHO 1st prize in the top section should be larger than 1st prize in the lower section. And the difference in prizes in the two sections should be greater than the difference in the entry fees, so as to reward excellence.
When you are starting out as an organizer, it takes a little time to find out how many people are going to come to your events. During that time you are developing a reputation for quality and efficiency. You also are experimenting with different time formats to see what your base of players like and what they will come to. At this point, it looks like one section tournaments are the way to go. If you build up to over 20 players per event, and the players give hints about wanting separate sections, then you should try two section or more tournaments. It doesn’t make sense to offer a big prize fund unless you are willing and able to eat the potential losses if only a few players show up. Many players will tell you to go big and make promises that they will come but then don’t show. Use your best judgment but expect some bumps along the way in developing your tournament program.
