Are there any circumstances where a non-USCF member (and not a member of any other federation) can play in a USCF-rated tournament? I have recently come across a club where non-members are allowed to play in rated tournaments, but then the non-rated player’s results are changed to all U—0 and a valid USCF member’s name is substituted. This seems highly irregular to me. Is there any precident for this?
Sounds a little odd to me.
This should be reported to the TDCC.
I agree with Sloan–certainly does not sound like a “house player” situation. If things are as you describe it sounds like “rigging” results. Hopefully you will have names and dates when you make your report, since the individuals involved will certainly try to deny it occurred.
There is one circumstance I think with a state festival event - we have one in Kentucky. It requires special arrangements. I don’t think that is what you have there.
Either all games in an event (ie a section) must be USCF rated or none of them can be.
The situation you are talking about is most definitely in violation of USCF rules.
There are a number of options by which non-members can play in USCF rated events without purchasing a membership (including a length-of-tournament membership):
The JTP programs (Primary JTP events and in-school K-12 JTP events)
Foreign titled players (IM/GM/WIM/WGM)
Events that are part of a ‘state games event’, ie one sanctioned by the National Congress of State Games. (For more information on this go to stategames.org/index.sp, there are state games organizations in 40 states.)
It sounds as though the organizer wanted to run an event open to USCF members and non-members, in which only the games between two members would be rated. This is specifically outlawed. Somebody needs to look into this.
Bill Smythe
If a valid member’s ID number is being substituted for a non-member and the tournament is handed in for a rating then the non-playing USCF member needs to file a complaint with detailed info. In fact any complaint filed regarding this situation will need details, details, details. It is very hard for the USCF staff to run down details based on a general complaint. The volunteer TDCC has no resources at all for running down sketchy info. They need your help to make this kind of thing right.
Tim
I have since gotten some clarification on what this TD is doing. He allows non-USCF members to play in his club tournaments. After the tournament is complete all matches with non-USCF members are set to double forfeits, i.e. “U—0” results for both players. In this way, the USCF member’s rating is unaffected by the matchup with the USCF member. Apparantly, prizes or awards use the actual results, but the ratings report does not. The matches are zeroed out. Then, because the USCF software does not allow a tournament submittal without all being a USCF member, the TD then substitutes his own name for the non-USCF members so the software will accept the tournament. SInce the results are all “U—0”, his rating is unaffected. Is this enough details for a ruling?
I had an error in one sentence above, it should read:
"In this way, the USCF member’s rating is unaffected by the matchup with the non-USCF member.
This is clearly a violation of USCF regulations and the club should be contacted and told to either run those events as non-rated events or to rate all games, which will most likely require that the non-members either purchase a USCF membership or pay for a length-of-tournament membership.
If they fail to comply, both the TD submitting the event and the sponsoring affiliate could be sanctioned for this violation of USCF regulations.
If the TDCC had contact info plus a name or two they could easily send the TD/Affiliate the procedures that they are expected to follow in the future and direct them to stop their current practice(s). Sadly, the TDCC members are volunteers that work from their home and have no access to such info. Even if we did have access, in this case we don’t have a clue as to whom we are talking about.
Filing a detailed complaint (or send me a detailed PM with contact info–hey, I make a rather bad Same Spade and/or Joe McCarthy?!), tends to get better results. Heck, I will bet in this case if these posts are shown to the TD/Affiliate that there is a good chance that their current practices would cease immediately.
Tim
OK, so now we’ve hit on the conundrum. I can provide details, (TD, affiliate and specific tournaments) and the evidence will be clear. But, this individual holds a lot of club tournaments and works hard to promote chess and support the USCF. He has simply gotten a little over zealous and has allowed non-members to play in USCF rated tournaments in an attempt to further encourage participation. Apparantly the membership fee is an impediment to some of his players. So, if this is reported and this TD/Affiliate are stripped of their credentials, have we helped chess or hurt it? If there is some way to issue a warning to cease this practice without the “death penalty” and then monitor for further violations, then I will submit a report. This practice is also affecting our state chess federation, of which I am a board member, so I must tread carefully here.
I think I’ve been able to identify the affiliate and TD from USCF records, what to do about it is not as easy to analyze. (For example, we don’t know how many different non-members are involved.)
Warnings/probations are the most common first steps in most non-money TDCC issues. In this case just printing out Mike Nolan’s posts and showing them to the offending party may do the trick (somthing like: “Hey, I saw this on-line. Did you know this?”).
Tim
This is very much back to my old issue, cost of “membership” where I really believe we do the USCF and its mission the greatest service is we would provide the lowest cost rating service available and lowest “entry point” to USCF membership possible. Every other membership benefit should pay for itself also with fund raising supporting some of the benefit that is supplied to our international competitors and such. But every time I bring this up, I’m labeled “anti-uscf”
I am fully willing to rate events with NO membership requirement for any of the participants for a fee of around $2.50 per game (for ALL games in a non-membership event, regardless of whether any players are members.)
I believe this would meet any definition of ‘paying for itself’, even the cost of dealing with the ID generation/duplication/correction issues that I feel such events would generate.
It would also meet the goal of having the revenue generating activities subsidize the non-revenue generating services of the USCF. (And please don’t tell me you don’t use any non-revenue generating services, this Forum is one of them.)
Such an option would replace both the JTP program and length-of-tournament memberships as currently defined.
If they have a large number of nonmembers then simply have an unrated section for them. It is unfair to the rated members to play a game thinking that it is going to be rated and then it isn’t.
Occasionally on Monday nights when we run a tournament that spans a month we get someone new who isn’t a member. I tell them that if they want to play in this particular tournament they will need to join the USCF before the tournament is over. Very rarely is that a problem.
I did have a slight one last time when a youth said he was going to join and didn’t show up for the last round, still had not renewed. So I paid the $7 tournament fee for him.
For the most part I don’t believe that it is money keeping people from playing USCF rated tournaments. It is just a handy excuse.
Wayne, I completely agree that in many cases it is just a convenient excuse.
I know several individuals who have said that the only reason they don’t play USCF rated chess any more is because of the high cost of dues. More than one of them had said that if there was a tournament membership provision they’d play in USCF rated events.
Well, we’ve had TMs available for about two years now, and I’ve checked on those individuals, none of them have played in any rated events in the past two years.
Moreover, one of them lives in Nebraska and could play in the Cornhusker State Games (a National Congress of State Games event) without even paying for a TM, he hasn’t played in it for over a decade, either. The last time he did play in it he was a current USCF member at the time.
for the most part you already almost have that. $12 for adults = 4 rounds ends up being $3 a game $7 for youths ends up being under $2 a game.
But what if you just want to play one rated game? My answer to that is why would you want to just play one rated game?
I think the bottom line is you have to draw the line somewhere. I personally think the USCF is doing far more as of late making it worth joining verses making it so cheap that it loses value.