Scholastic blitz tournaments - clock move or touch move?

Running Chess Tournaments
1

Hi everyone,

I wanted to open this topic up for discussion - even up to Scholastic Council or EB level. This issue came up in our state scholastic blitz tournament, which we only hold annually (and perhaps less frequently due to logistics).

It has been traditional (likely including this year) that the National Scholastic tournaments (HS, MS, ES, K-12) that have side Blitz / Bughouse events use clock move - see uschess.org/tournaments/comm … zRules.pdf

  1. A legal move is completed when a player starts his opponent’s clock. Touch move rules will not apply.

and uschess.org/tournaments/comm … eRules.pdf

  1. The game is clock move. A move is not completed until the opponent’s clock has been started.

*** However, in the latest update to the USCF Rulebook (Jan 2010) - uschess.org/docs/gov/reports … hanges.pdf
in Chapter 11 - Blitz Chess: USCF Blitz Rules -

Rule 11.10
10.) If a player touches one piece, then moves another; and presses the clock, the opponent
may press the player’s clock to force the player to move the piece touched, or may stop the
clock to claim a violation. A penalty may be assessed

We recently held a Maryland State Scholastic Blitz Tournament, and on at least one occasion, I saw a young player (player A) do a clock move where he moved a piece, put it back to original square, then moved another piece then hit the clock. As a TD observing this, it led me to think - what happened if this player’s opponent (player B) stopped the clock and called illegal move for touch move according to the USCF Blitz Rules.

So my two questions or points are

  1. Since we didn’t post any rules in advance, does the USCF Blitz Rules from Jan 2010 (touch move) supersede the traditional clock move (that still is being used in the National Scholastics and many youngsters have learned)? How would you rule if the opponent (player B) raised the Touch Move issue if we didn’t announce clock move / touch move ahead of time?

I would have ruled a touch move violation and forced player (player A) to play first piece touched. However, if opponent (player B) claims a win based on rule 11.7.d (A game is won by the player … Who after an illegal move is completed by the opponent, then takes the king (if the king is in check) or claims the win and stops the clock, before the player determines a move), does rule 11.10 supersede this? (i.e. if a player violates touch move (rule 11.10), does that player lose the game (11.7.d) or make a move with the first touched piece (11.10)?)

  1. Perhaps it’s time to force the National Scholastics to also move to touch move as well to be consistent (even though as Francisco Guadalupe, Chief TD, pointed out in an email - since the sections can be large - having TD’s resolve the clock move / touch move issue may slow things down too much). I think young players adapt quickly - if touch move is the new “law of the land” then after a couple of violations, they’ll learn. In addition, if a scholastic player plays in a blitz tournament or playoff in an adult tournament, it may be a shock to learn about touch move being standard now.

I would appreciate any feedback to this.

Sincerely,

Chris Kim
Local TD - trying to become a Senior TD
Baltimore, MD

2

I suspect that most rated events played at Game/5 are played using the ‘clock move’ rule, not just ones at national scholastic events. Wasn’t that the rule that the WBCA used?

3

There are two sets of Blitz rules: Scholastic and the USCF updated ones. They are different. In National Scholastic events the scholastic blitz rules apply, not the updated USCF rulebook Blitz rules. USCF scholastics also have a separate set of additional (substitute?) rules that apply only at National Scholastic events. Many scholastic organizers use the USCF scholastic regulations for their scholastic events, including blitz. It is probably a good idea to consider announcing the scholastic rules use in pre-tournament publicity in non-national events.

4

If touch move isnt always the rule, it certainly should be.

5

Well, as quoted above, it isn’t.

6

then it follows…“it certainly should be.”

7

Why? I think as long as players understand what the clock/touch move rules are in a five minute game, that’s sufficient notice for those who choose not to play under those rules.

I suspect that the clock move rules are a bit easier to administer.

8

Of course, clock move rules are easier to administer. Traditionally, in some regions, clock move is the standard players follow. It is to the player’s cost to waste time to have to retract a move and hit his clock. With the speed many moves are made, a lot of pieces can be touched, knocked down, and put back in order. It is difficult for a TD to monitor a blitz tournament; to a great degree, he has to rely on the players to maintain order. Good blitz players have an unwritten code of ethics and know that the press of the button completes the move. And they do not move or press the button until the other player has moved. Touch move is for the luxury of “real chess” - 40/2, scorekeeping, and a cup of steaming hot coffee to warm your hands.

9

Nope. Neither WBCA nor USCF nor any other major regulator or organizer of adult blitz tournaments, as far as I know, has ever used anything but touch-move.

I doubt it. Clock-move is sure to generate arguments if, for example, one player tries to move before the other has pressed his clock, and now the latter wants to take his move back.

Clock-move is an abomination on the face of the earth. It’s time to let it go the way of the dinosaur – especially in scholastic tournaments.

Fans of clock-move (and others) should note that clock-move involves the suspension not only of touch-move (rule 10B) but also of determined-move (rule 9A). Under clock-move, a player who releases a piece on its new square, but has not yet pressed his clock, may still take it back and player another move with the same piece OR with a different piece.

Bill Smythe

10

I can think of two instances where it is clock move instead of touch move…

…Internet chess and chess engines.

Granted, one’s clock is “hit” automatically on releasing the piece. And one can have premoves, too… But grabbing a piece with the mouse or clicking on it does not mean one has to move that piece. One can grab and drag a piece, see the blunder with the piece on the new square, and return it to the original square and try something else.

(And, while it would have been additional work to code in and imply all sorts of nasty proprietary interface control systems, there is no reason that Internet chess servers could not have programmed “click move” into interfaces as a rule.)

I wonder if one surveyed the field of Internet players who don’t play in tournaments how they would feel about touch move, and if they would feel touch move an unnecessary obstacle. Though that’s a virtual hypothetical.

11

So with clock move, how many pieces can i touch and rearrage before putting it all back and hitting the clock? Can i move my opponents pieces too? Who decides whether or not i put my pieces back on the proper square?

12

I don’t think it’s spelled out - but you could touch and rearrange as many of your pieces as you want before hitting the clock (i.e. thinking with your fingers). I suppose you can capture and uncapture your opponent’s pieces as well before hitting the clock. But remember this is blitz, so time is very limited, so I doubt many people would want do very many touches and waste seconds off the clock.

One situation where clock move would be favorable to a player A would be if that player A were in check but didn’t see it and played a move with a piece that didn’t deal with the check or could block the check. Then Player B would win by capturing the King either directly or claim touch move - Player A would have to move the original piece and then Player B would capture King and win. With clock move, as long as clock not hit to end move, Player A could take back move and play another that would deal with the check.

Chris

13

yes, but who keeps track of where the pieces really belong? my opponent doesnt have a scoresheet to make any kind of claim.

14

The rules could answer questions one and two. Were I writing house rules for clock move, I would probably write/answer, “One piece/move at a time. Your pieces only. The players, and the TD if necessary.”

And settling disputes such as those would be no less onerous on a scholastic TD than a younger player screaming, “you touched it! you did! liar!” and then ruling against that player because there are no independent witnesses to corroborate and neither side will budge. Which happens.

I would not anticipate clock move or touch move to be any more difficult than the other. Nor is either inherently more preferable to me. YMMV, as may the opinion of other TDs.

(But I see no need to implement clock move, myself.)

15

So far as I know, this is the first time that touch move has been suggested to apply in the case where moving the piece touched would cause an illegal move.

Alex Relyea

16

Incorrect. Even under touch-move (and determined-move), a player is never obligated to move a touched piece if that piece has no legal move. (That includes the case where the piece has no legal move because no move by that piece would relieve the check.)

Bill Smythe

17

Bill,

Thank you for clarifying and correcting my statement. It also helps me understand rule 14 in the revised Blitz Chess rules:

14.) A player who has played an illegal move must retract it and make a legal move with the
piece touched prior to pressing the clock. If no legal move exists with that piece then he may
make any legal move. Illegal moves unnoticed by both players cannot be corrected afterwards.
An illegal move is completed when the player presses the clock, whereupon the opponent may
claim a win.

15.) A legal move is determined when the hand leaves the piece and completed when the
clock is pressed.

Thus, in a situation where a player realizes he/she just played an illegal move with a touched piece (e.g. moves a knight diagonally 2 squares) and releases the piece but not yet hit the clock (if clock is hit, then opponent can claim win), then that player can go back and make a legal move with that touched piece then hit the clock.

Thanks,
Chris

18

Correct. Furthermore, if the touched piece has no legal move (but the player has not yet pressed his clock), then the player can go back and make any legal move.

I hope everybody realizes we are talking blitz here. In regular (and quick) tournament play, a completed illegal move does not immediately lose the game.

Bill Smythe

19

There were about 270 players in the National High School Blitz Championship last night. A questionnaire was given to each player explaining the differences between Clock Move and Touch Move, and asking whether he or she would prefer Clock Move or Touch Move for future Scholastic Blitz Championships (as well as a space for each respondent’s name, rating, grade, city, and comments). There were 125 completed surveys returned: 12 preferred Touch Move, 112 preferred Clock Move, and one said “Yes.”

20

If the players voted 112-12 against the en passant rule, would you repeal that, too?

Bill Smythe