Scenario: Black player reaches across board to make a move. As Black determines a legal move, White player verbally offers a draw. Black pauses for a few seconds, and tells opponent to “make a move.” At this point, Black completes the move by pressing the clock.
Does Black still have the right to accept the draw offer after White makes a move?
Would the decision be different under FIDE rules? (White is a European titled player. However, the open section was not FIDE rated, and therefore under USCF rules.)
Does the timing of the draw offer, notably after seeing what move was played, change anything?
In this case, Black player did not accept the draw and the game continued normally. But the question remains in my mind, as the scenario could occur again.
I should add that I was the Black player. I take longer to make moves than most players while reaching across the board. For most people, the time between touching a piece and completing the move is about 2 seconds (faster in time pressure). For me, it can easily be 10 seconds or longer. Not that it should matter, except that 10 seconds is plenty of time to see the intended move and offer a draw.
A draw offer made while the opponent is ‘on the move’ is improper but still valid. If you’re in the middle of making your move, I would say you haven’t had sufficient opportunity to consider and respond to the draw offer yet, so it is still valid and cannot be withdrawn as your opponent makes his next move. (But I’m an absolutist when it comes to draw offers, even though the rule book is not.)
Based on what you wrote at the end of your post, I’d like to make sure I understand exactly what you’re asking. I can see two different cases, although the outcome will be the same in both. In the first case, Black has released a piece on its destination square but has not yet pressed the clock. (In USCF rules parlance, Black has “determined” a move but has not yet “completed” the move.) In the second case, Black has touched a piece and is in the process of moving the piece to its destination square, and Black has not yet released the piece. After Black has touched the piece but before he releases it, White offers the draw.
The first case is fairly straightforward. Under USCF rules, Black has not yet completed his move by pressing his clock, so White is not on the move and out of order for offering a draw. FIDE does not draw a distinction between “determination” and “completion” of the move. Black has made his move, so it is proper for White to offer the draw. Under both sets of rules, the draw offer can not be revoked, and Black has the right to see White’s move before deciding whether to accept the draw offer.
The second case requires a bit more care to analyze. The applicable USCF rule is 14B1:
The applicable FIDE rule is article 9.1.b:
In both rules, the key point is that the opponent may reject the draw by intentionally touching a piece and starting the process of determining a move. However, in the hypothetical, Black is already touching a piece and is in the process of determining a move when White makes the draw offer. The fact that Black is touching a piece should not constitute an immediate rejection of the draw offer.
In the second case, White does not know Black’s move until Black releases the piece on its destination square. White may guess Black’s move, and, depending on the abilities of the players, White’s guess may be correct. But the rules do not depend on the abilities of the players for their application. Because Black’s move is not known when White offers the draw, I would treat White’s offer as a late offer following his most recently completed move rather than as a premature offer before Black presses the clock (as in the first case). But this interpretation leads to problems figuring out for how long the draw offer is valid.
Under USCF rules, I would say that Black has until he presses his clock to accept the draw offer, as Black is still on the move. Under FIDE rules, the situation is far more problematical. White is entitled to move as soon as Black releases the piece, even before Black presses the clock. (However, Black still has the right to press the clock. This would be especially important in an increment time control.) Under my interpretation of White’s draw offer as being late rather than premature, the normal guaranteed reflection period (between the statement of the draw offer and the deliberate touch of a piece) is not available in this case. White could nullify the draw offer by moving very quickly after Black releases the piece. If Black is quick enough, he could put the piece back on its original square and consider the draw offer.
I have to admit I don’t have high confidence in my analysis of the second case. In fact, I started to write my answer treating White’s offer in the second case as (very) premature and then applying the same reasoning as in the first case. After further reflection, I changed my thinking to White’s offer being late. I could be persuaded to go back to my initial thinking.
Rambling answer above …
I’m not sure what the question is asking, but I think I answered it in my reply to your first question.
I thought this was a rather interesting question. Thanks for asking in in the forum.
Once White made the offer of a draw, it remains valid until Black makes his next move or declines the offer. The attempt to get away with the improper offer of a draw while Black is moving can work out really poorly for White. He still has to make a move before Black decides on the offer. In the case presented with all of the details as is, if Black had blundered his Queen, and White takes it, Black can still accept the draw.
I feel the answer must be Yes, because I feel that…
Any draw offer that White makes while White’s clock is ticking remains available for Black to accept until Black presses Black’s clock.
Any draw offer that White makes while Black’s clock is ticking remains available for Black to accept until Black presses Black’s clock for a second time.
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The draw offer only remains in effect until black deliberately touches a piece or it is rejected (14B1). Pressing a clock is irrelevent.
A piece that is already in hand when the draw offer is made makes things interesting. The piece touch was not in response to the draw offer so it would still seem to be in play until the next time black deliberately touches a piece (14B2/14B3). If the offer is made between the time black touches the first and second piece of a capture it would seem that finishing the capture negates the draw offer. Annoying the opponent (20G) may come into play.
Clarification: At the time White offered draw, he had a good idea what Black’s move would be, through a combination of which piece was touched, which direction it was (slowly) moving, and the tactics of the position. This is akin to the novice who double checks his intended move while holding the piece. In this specific case, Black’s disability caused the slow move.
I agree that Black should not be compelled to consider the draw offer while holding a piece in his hand, or in the time between determination and completion of the move. I would also expect the TD to warn the opponent about such distractions.