I have run Scholastic tournaments for several years now. I have tried to make a way where players can have multiple chances to win awards, so I have given medals for the top player in each grade in addition to top place trophies in each section.
I know that rule 32F says that no player should receive more than one individual trophy, but I also read in Variation 32F2 that a player can win both grade and place trophies.
The problem I have encountered is that the top place winners in a section (3rd through 5th grade) usually have the highest score of their grade level group. So I wind up with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place going to the top 5th grader, 4th grader, and 3rd grader. That means double awards for those players and nothing for the others.
Has anyone encountered similar problems? Can anyone suggest a way to work around this problem?
Do know a director that had non-rated scholastic events. What he did was give a trophy with what the points were after the tournament. If you have 4 rounds: you could have trophies with 4.0 winner, 3.5 winner, 3.0 winner, 2.5 winner, ect. If you have the time and money to get 1000 trophies and only have on them the final score, just plan the cost of the event with the cost of how many trophies, then find the per-trophy cost then add this cost to the entry fee.
Then you do not have to worry about the rule. As it is just a scholastic event, the parents and the children are just having a good time. If the event is a non-scholastic event, you are not forced to use the official rules of chess; even if it was a rated event, as it is a small tournament and everyone are friends and come back to meet each other – you are the only person that is making a problem of it not the parents or the players.
This situation is actually quite common, as alluded to in Variation 32F2.
The OVERALL place prizes should be (and look) more prestigious than the GRADE prizes. Then you can apply the tie-breaks that Tim Just suggested. Give the player with the highest tie-break in a score group the OVERALL place awards then give to the others the GRADE awards. Just make sure that 3rd place OVERALL, for example, looks more desirable and prestigious than 1st or 2nd place GRADE. Sometimes we muck up and the GRADE awards are more desirable to the kids than the PLACE awards. Ordering trophies of the same size is the common messup here.
I personally don’t use 32F2, but it is legal to do so. Whichever you choose to do, just be sure to be consistent. The players will come to respect that even if they disagree.
I do use tiebreaks and I give out medals for grade prizes and trophies for overall prizes. But the problem still comes when the top 3rd grader is the top overall in his section. It seems he should get the first place Overall section trophy as well as the Top Third grader medal.
Also, the second place Overall in that section is usually the Top Second grader. So, she should get second Overall trophy and Top Second Grade medal.
I know that no player should receive more than one trophy or medal, but it seems odd to give a medal to the Top First Grader when other frist graders have obviously done better. That is something that children notice.
That is not a major issue if you want to give more then one trophy to some scholastic player. The rule books does say that you should only give one trophy to one player. If the parents have zero problem with the system, then it is only you as the director having this ethical problem.
Have you ever thought of changing the name of the titles that are given out on trophies. As having titles on trophies, with one with first place and one with under 14 would be a problem if the child is under 14 and came in first. Some directors and organizers, just give trophies that does not have the plate on. After the tournament just order the plates for the tournament with the titles on them. The plate could say John Doe, first place and first under 14. Number of scholastic players and parents would like to see the name on the plate.
Would have number of trophies to hand out, without the need to have plates on the trophies before the tournament. Then would be able to hand only one trophy with more then one title. In a few weeks the player would get in the mail the plate so the parent can place onto the trophy: then the player would have the name of the player then a general title.
The idea, I think, would be to award the most players possible. This is the same situation that would arrise in an open event where you have 1st place overall plus Class prizes, where a Class D player may win the whole tournament. In that case the Class D player would get 1st place prize, and the next highest scoring Class D player would receive the Class D prize. You wouldn’t award both prizes (1st place and Class D) to the same person.
Ideally, you would want your place awards to be more desirable than the grade awards. Thereby, awarding the most prestigous awards to the place winners. You could give trophies for place awards, and medals for Grade awards, for example.
This is a delicate situation in scholastics, mainly because parents don’t understand how everything works. I’ve found that if you simply explain the ideas to the parents, everything turns out ok. And it’s been my experience that the parents are the bigger babies than the babies themselves But that’s understandable.
The rules do having meaning. My idea is simple, just give one trophy and only one trophy without a plate. Then mail the plate to the parent, with the name of the scholastic player, then the title they won. My point is this, he as the director is only making the ethical problem. The parents are so willing to spend $20 to win a trophy worth $7.75 for first place.
This is the reason that the most profit from a tournament is a scholastic tournament. As the organizer and director can have a scholastic tournament, make the entry fee $30, then give all the players trophies worth between $10 to $5. With trophies and rating fees the organizer can clear $20 per-scholastic player. With scholastic tournament being large, can draw 50 players per-scholastic tournament. With clearing $20 per-scholastic player and 50 players would make $1000 for the tournament.
If it is a adult tournament, $30 entry fee with 50 players would make a total of $1500. With prize funding, with a higher costing site then the school building. The tournament could break even or make no more then $500.
Have a scholastic event with entry fee of $30 with 50 players – should clear $1,000; or open tournament with entry fee of $30 with 50 players – should break even or make no more then $500. Looks to be so clear why scholastic events are so popular with organizers and directors. What organizer will spend $300 on one trophy for a scholastic event, it is very common for organizers to give first place $300 in prize money for a open (all age groups) tournament.
Trophies are nice, parents and scholastic players like them; the organizers and directors like them when they go to the bank on Monday.
I understand how prizes work and how the distribution is handled in adult or cash prize tournaments. Scholastic chess is such a different beast, though, that I wonder how fair these rulings are.
A hypothetical example should clarify my original question. Steven is a third grader who wins 4.5 out of 5 in his section and takes first place overall. Becky, the next highest third grader, only wins 1 out of 5 games.
By the rules as I understand them, Steven gets the Overall section prize, but cannot get the Top Third Grader prize since he is not allowed to win more than one award.
Becky, being the next in line for the Third Grade award, should receive the Top Third Grader prize.
The problem comes in acknowledging that Becky is the Top Third Grader. Obviously, she is not, since her score is far poorer than Steven’s. She knows it, Steven knows it, and the parents know it. Her prize now seems like a pity prize.
This division of prizes, while understood and accepted more easily by adults, does not seem right when dealing with children. I know that they love to get trophies (a problem solved by participation ribbons or chess item giveaways), but having a player acknowledged as the “Top Third Grader” when they are clearly outmatched by another third grader seems problematic.
Of course, if this were the only chess problem I faced, I would count myself lucky…
I understand quite well your concerns, and they are admirable. All of us have gone the same route. The real concern is giving Becky an award that she may not truly believe she deserves. I really don’t have any alternatives to offer, other than perhaps calling the award that Becky gets something different. Perhaps naming 1st place overall trophy " Section Champion", instead of “1st place” and Becky’s award “Top 3rd Grader” may help, I don’t know. I really don’t know of a good alternative.
But again, the idea is to award the most players possible - this is why you have separate awards for place and category, right? If you give Steven both trophies, there’s none left for the others.
And BTW: these types of situations aren’t limited to scholastics. They pop up in adult Class tournaments as well.
Afterall, I suppose carefully wording one’s engraving can be quite useful.
I hope you get it figured out. Maybe some of the others here can shed better light than I. Good luck and hang in there.
After all this time, he came to the only logical answer. During the tournament just give the players a trophy. After the tournament just place the name of the player and the title they won. Can place the final score, the other titles as ‘co-something’. Most trophy shops will have little problem just to cut the plates, most times being less then a dollar.
If it is about a trophy, just make sure that every scholastic player gets one. Most trophies could be the most simple, with a out of pocket cost of just a few dollars. Just make sure you add the cost of the trophies into the cost of the entry fee. If the adverage cost of the trophies are $4.00, then make the cost of entry fee: cover the cost of trophies, rating fees, rent.
After the tournament, have the plates cut: then mail the parents of the players the plates. Everyone takes a trophy home, that is what the parents wanted in the first place a trophy.
What I would do is skip section prizes altogether.
You want to give out more awards? Give trophies down to sixth or tenth or twentieth place and medals to the rest. Your problem seems to be in trying to uniquely award effort to as many people as possible. Really, you should be recognizing that every scholastic player has put forth a very good effort and that they should all get awards. Of course you can’t award everyone a trophy, which is why you go to the participation ribbons and such.
But you should extend the range of your awards. I’m sure my son was encouraged to keep on playing when he won a medal for 48th place! The at the state level he took sixth in the championship for his grade level. At the state grade championship he took first only because the person who had a better score than him wasn’t from our state! Did my son think that lowered the value of his trophy? NO!
Number of tournament directors have had this same problem. The major problem that you have is a small field of third graders in you’re tournament. As you have steve with a 4.5 out of 5.0: with Becky the next in line with a 1.0 out of 5.0. It looks to be clear, that you have more players in the higher grades then the lower grades: you wish to make each and ever grade be equal to each other – as it looks you give equal trophies to each grade level.
What you could do is give trophies out not in grade but in rating points. Like under 1000 trophy, under 800 trophy, under 600 trophy, ect. – it could also then give problems with a tie score, given you as the director some problems. Then for the new players, they would not have a USCF rating so this idea is not the best also. It has been done with a medel for new player, but some times that new player wins the tournament.
If you are going to have a number of scholastic tournaments, not just one or two but something like 6 ot 12 a year: then would do a plus score trophies. If say you get them from crownawards.com you could get trophies with 100 like the TR1300 for $3.25 each: or what kind of trophy you like. If you have a 4 round event, have a trophy say 4.0 winner, 3.5 winner, 3.0 winner, 2.5 winner, then from 2.0 to 0.0 give them a medel. Then everyone gets a award and that would make everyone happy.
well, at my first tournament (I was unrated ofc) trophies were promised to the top 3 in each section (first second and third in each section) and the top unrated player in each section. It turns out that I won but didn’t get the top unrated trophy. Nobody got it (because I was the only unrated in my section) but if there would have been another unrated, I think he/she would have gotten it. Don’t know if that is a good way to do it or not, just thought I’d say what I have seen done
But that’s understandable.