Using two hands to make a move

[Akzidenz]

I played a club game (non-tournament game) against someone who would take the captured piece with his left hand, and move the capturing piece with his right hand. In other words, he used two hands to make a capture.

First time I’ve encountered this. I found it somewhat disorienting, and very annoying. I also wondered if it was legal. I know you’re supposed to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand. That alone would seem to rule out “two-handed-moves.”

[NittanyAmerica]

It has always been my understanding that you move and hit the clock with the same hand.

I won’t play anyone who does not follow this simple rule, otherwise what is the point of chess? To not do this is like saying at any moment a Knight can move like a Queen and vica/versa, etc.

NittanyAmerica

[rfeditor]

FIDE rule 6.8 requires that a player move and press the clock with the same hand. I’m not sure if this is repeated in the USCF rules, but I’d enforce it anyway on the ground that the FIDE rules govern unless specifically overridden (which is certainly not the case). Using two hands to move is not explicitly covered, but if a player complained I would probably rule that this comes under “forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent.”

[Grant_Perks]

@Akzidenz

I played a club game (non-tournament game) against someone who would take the captured piece with his left hand, and move the capturing piece with his right hand. In other words, he used two hands to make a capture.

First time I’ve encountered this. I found it somewhat disorienting, and very annoying. I also wondered if it was legal. I know you’re supposed to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand. That alone would seem to rule out “two-handed-moves.”

I see nothing wrong with using two hands to make a move, as long as the clock is punched with the last hand used to make the move. Thus, if the captured piece is removed with the players left hand and his own piece is placed with his right hand then he should punch the clock with the right hand.

My understanding of the move and punch with the same hand rule is to prevent someone from punching the clock prematurely. This won’t happen in the case of someone who uses both hands to move as long as he punches with the last hand used.

[Steve_Immitt]

@Grant Perks

@Akzidenz

I played a club game (non-tournament game) against someone who would take the captured piece with his left hand, and move the capturing piece with his right hand. In other words, he used two hands to make a capture.

First time I’ve encountered this. I found it somewhat disorienting, and very annoying. I also wondered if it was legal. I know you’re supposed to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand. That alone would seem to rule out “two-handed-moves.”

I see nothing wrong with using two hands to make a move, as long as the clock is punched with the last hand used to make the move. Thus, if the captured piece is removed with the players left hand and his own piece is placed with his right hand then he should punch the clock with the right hand.

My understanding of the move and punch with the same hand rule is to prevent someone from punching the clock prematurely. This won’t happen in the case of someone who uses both hands to move as long as he punches with the last hand used.

Rule 16C1. Using the clock. Each player must operate the clock with the same hand that moves the pieces.

Black, who is right-handed, has the clock on his right. He picks up White’s Rook on d1 with his left hand. He then picks up his own Rook on d8 with his right hand, and then places it down on d1. Then,

a.) Using his right hand, he presses the clock.
Black claims that he has pressed the clock with the same hand which moved the piece.

                                    OR

b.) Using his left hand, moving it over his right hand, he then presses his clock plunger with the bottom of White’s captured Rook.
Black claims that he has pressed the clock with the same hand which (re-)moved the piece.

                                   OR

b1.) He tosses the Rook with his left hand to his right hand, and then, using his right hand, presses his clock with the bottom of  White's captured Rook (variation frequently used by 2500+, often with an intervening Rook Twirl of varying degrees of difficulty).
 Black claims that he has pressed the clock with the same hand which moved the piece.
   
 Rule 16C1 does not appear to explicitly prohibit two-handed captures.

[Jim_T]

Many years ago, I was paired against a player with a disability (not sure the exact nature, but he was in a wheelchair and his right hand was spastic) – during the tournament, the TD allowed his score to kept by another person. I didn’t object, since I figured he was already under the handicap that he couldn’t afford to time-scramble.

I could see how the TD might similarly rule that a player with Parkinson’s or a similar syndrome can be able to use two hands, and I wouldn’t object.

[ppwchess]

@Steve_Immitt

b1.) He tosses the Rook with his left hand to his right hand, and then, using his right hand, presses his clock with the bottom of  White's captured Rook (variation frequently used by 2500+, often with an intervening Rook Twirl of varying degrees of difficulty).
 Black claims that he has pressed the clock with the same hand which moved the piece.
   
 Rule 16C1 does not appear to explicitly prohibit two-handed captures.

Depending on the degree of difficulty of the rook twirl, does that give him extra credit? Every 1/10 of degree of difficulty adds a 1/10 to his score.

[relyea]

@rfeditor

FIDE rule 6.8 requires that a player move and press the clock with the same hand. I’m not sure if this is repeated in the USCF rules, but I’d enforce it anyway on the ground that the FIDE rules govern unless specifically overridden (which is certainly not the case). Using two hands to move is not explicitly covered, but if a player complained I would probably rule that this comes under “forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent.”

I’d cite FIDE rule 4.1 “Each move must be made with one hand only.” That seems much more clear, although again I can’t find a USCF analog.

Alex Relyea

[Smythe_Dakota]

I suppose one could argue that, since by law M=C and X=C, that necessarily M=X. (M is the hand used to move the piece, X to capture the piece, and C to press the clock.)

There doesn’t seem to be any explicit USCF rule requiring the use of only one hand, though. Obviously the question comes up only in the case of capture or castling. I seem to remember that one version of the old WBCA bliltz rules required capturing with just one hand, but allowed castling with two.

Bill Smythe

[Akzidenz]

Thanks for the input, all. Maybe the rules need to be more explicit. Except in instances of disability, why should anyone be allowed to use two hands to make a move?

@Grant Perks

I see nothing wrong with using two hands to make a move, as long as the clock is punched with the last hand used to make the move. Thus, if the captured piece is removed with the players left hand and his own piece is placed with his right hand then he should punch the clock with the right hand.

Thinking back on it, what bothered me was that I couldn’t tell which hand was last used to make the move. The guy went very quickly (definitely not a disabled individual), so I couldn’t see where the capturing piece was coming from. Yeah, I’m a patzer, but I don’t usually have that problem.

I guess if I was asked to rule on this at a tournament, I might say to the player “Please slow down or use one hand. Your opponent has to be able to see that the last hand on a piece is the hand that’s hitting the clock.”

[seki]

My understanding of the move and punch with the same hand rule is to prevent someone from punching the clock prematurely

It goes beyound that. I’ve seen players, high and low, weld their left hand to the top of their clock plunger so that their clock could not be made to tick.

[Smythe_Dakota]

@seki

… I’ve seen players … weld their left hand to the top of their clock plunger so that their clock could not be made to tick.

Wouldn’t work on a Chronos. The opponent can press his side, and the player’s side will start anyway.

Bill Smythe

[sloan]

@Grant Perks

@Akzidenz

I played a club game (non-tournament game) against someone who would take the captured piece with his left hand, and move the capturing piece with his right hand. In other words, he used two hands to make a capture.

First time I’ve encountered this. I found it somewhat disorienting, and very annoying. I also wondered if it was legal. I know you’re supposed to move a piece and hit the clock with the same hand. That alone would seem to rule out “two-handed-moves.”

I see nothing wrong with using two hands to make a move, as long as the clock is punched with the last hand used to make the move. Thus, if the captured piece is removed with the players left hand and his own piece is placed with his right hand then he should punch the clock with the right hand.

My understanding of the move and punch with the same hand rule is to prevent someone from punching the clock prematurely. This won’t happen in the case of someone who uses both hands to move as long as he punches with the last hand used.

BINGO! We have a winner!