Video as a substitute for scoresheets?

Running Chess Tournaments
1

Now that video, and laptops, and built in webcams in laptops are commonplace, are there any rules about videotaping (should that be video “taping”) tournaments?

Two questions come up. If one player has the means to record the game in an unobtrusive manner, such as when there’s a flat surface on which a laptop can be perched, and wishes to do so, is he

a. Allowed to do so automatically?
b. Forbidden to do so automatically?
c. Allowed, but only with consent of TD and/or opponent?

2nd question.

If a match is being recorded, can one or both of the players use that as a substitute for keeping a scoresheet?

2

Moderator Mode: Off

There is a practical problem with video recording a game and that would be the battery life of the computer or camera used. If you were only going to record one game, then the battery should last. However, I don’t know of any devices that would last a complete tournament.

The rules state that the game is written on a score sheet or used by an USCF approved electronic device (Monroi or eNotate).

I believe the video recording might be allowed by the TD and/or opponent, but I don’t see where it would stand as an official recording of the game score as the two above mentioned ways.

3

Here’s what caused me to think about it.

My tournaments are afternoon “church basement” affairs. I’ve been thinking about adding a feature to them. I’m thinking about setting up a web cam aimed at board 1, which would stream the game live to the skittles room. That way, parents, spectators, and any players who have finished the games already could watch the game without gathering around the board and disturbing the players. These days, the equipment to do this is pretty darned cheap and easy to set up, so there are no real technical or financial hurdles.

I was also thinking about another feature. After the games end, at roughly 4:00, have an “analysis session”, in which interested players and spectators could see one of the games analyzed. We’ll walk through the top game, and have someone, hopefully the tournament winner, go through it step by step. (My tourneys are mixed kids/adults, weak and strong players, which means there are probably people who could benefit from that sort of instruction. Hopefully a strong player would be willing to do it.) My first thought would be that I would use a scoresheet from the top board as the source, but the problem with that is that in my G/25 with 5 second delay games, the top board often goes into time pressure, and often both players stop keeping score before the game ends, so the winning moves might not be recorded.

Unless, of course, I set up that webcam, because then we would have a record of the game even after both players stopped keeping score.

And that got me to thinking about whether the players at that table needed to keep score at all, because there’s a better, more complete, and more accurate record of the game in the form of the webcam log, so why bother with a scoresheet?

In fact, on woot.com today there was an eight camera security system for a few hundred bucks. It’s not something I would buy, but I could see doing it. That, plus eight tripods, would provide a system for recording eight games (or more, depending on layout), for less than the prize fund at a lot of tourneys. You could dispense with scoresheets for any game recorded, and also have a better way of resolving disputes.

It sounds like this possibility hasn’t made it into the USCF rules yet, but it’s something to think about.

4

How long will it take to recreate a game, move by move, during a dispute or a draw claim by using a video?

5

Think about streaming your games on the Internet.

6

I can’t help but remember Bobby Fischer’s objections to having cameras in the playing room during his match against Boris Spassky.

Bob

7

I’m sorry, but I can’t possibly think of anything more boring to watch than waiting for a live video feed of waiting for someone to move. At least when a game is streamed over ICC (for example), there is the possibility of commentary (for high level games) or kibitzing among the observers.

As a TD, I would never allow this as a substitute for a scoresheet under any conditions. (Don’t bother raising the case of a player who is physically challenged and unable to record the moves – that’s where an assistant comes in to do so [see the rules for blind players].) Nor would I allow it to substantiate claims. I’ll be d*mned if I’m going to spend my time watching a video to try to catch moves to substantiate a claim, or worse, speed up the video, miss the move, go back, try to catch the move … No, thanks. Even a DGT electronic board is no substitute for meeting the requirements of rule 15.

As far as allowing spectators to watch the game on the first board in a separate room, as far as I’m concerned, if the players don’t object, that’s fine. However, I’m going to be mighty particular about having wires lying about, especially where someone might trip over them.

8

In almost every case, it would be faster than using a scoresheet.

Of course, I’m basing my experience on the sort of claims that come up in “church basement” tournaments. Maybe things are different at the big, high prize, tournaments.

9

Submit a request to the rules committee with your variation spelled out with all details.

10

I look forward to the day when tournament chess is played on some kind of two-screened computer. There would be one screen and one mouse for each player. Each player would make his move with the mouse, and the resulting position would be displayed on both screens. To guard against accidental mouse slips, each player would click a Submit button to confirm each move. Of course, the computer would keep a record of the moves, reject illegal moves, and display clock times.

Eventually, tournament chess could morph to the point where there would also be a Draw Request button, which the player could click just before clicking Submit. If the player clicks Draw Request, the computer would* immediately declare the game drawn if the player has a valid draw claim (e.g. triple-occurrence, 50-move, etc), or

  • otherwise, announce a draw offer, but
  • declare the game drawn if the opponent also clicked on Draw Request on the previous move.
    I could even see making Draw Request a secret button, i.e. a draw offer would not be announced to the opponent, but if the opponent then also clicks Draw Request, declare the game drawn.

How often have you wanted a draw, but did not want to offer it because the offer might give the opponent a psychological advantage? The secret button might solve this problem.

Bill Smythe

11

How is this different from on-line chess?

12

Maybe organizers start lugging computers to tournaments for player use? That way we can all get together in a physical location to play online against those sitting next to us!

13

Okay, okay. But it could combine the advantages of online with the distinct in-person feature of being able to watch your opponent squirm when you play an unexpected move.

Also, what about the secret-draw-offer concept? Does anybody think this may be of some value?

Bill Smythe

14

I can text my move to my opponent and skip the video altogether.

15

So if we start videotaping games, do players get a challenge flag to throw at the TD?

16

Exactly. You can appeal to the Replay TD once per time control.

17

Uh oh. Better change that to you can only appeal if you haven’t already had a denied appeal in that time control. Otherwise you risk people gaming the system by committing one non-dangerous touch move violation just to avoid the possibility of a challenge if they need to do something sneaky later.

If everybody were angels then you wouldn’t need these types of rules. As is, :unamused: :smiling_imp: :unamused:

18

Oooh…sneaky.

Actually, I haven’t watched a football game in about five years. I’m not exactly sure what the current rules on “replay” officials are.

I’m picturing someone sitting at a chessboard that is viewed by a camera being streamed into the skittles room. At some point one player calls over a TD and some discussion ensues. The TD waves at them as if to say “continue”. Suddenly, a flag is thrown and both players look expectantly at the camera. After a minute, the TD sticks his face in the camera and declares, “After further review, the piece was touched. The only legal move is to h4. Stalemate.”

19

Probably better to have a challenge flag than more organic indicators of displeasure…