Wrong Color Promotion

[relyea]

@Ron Suarez

I said two sentences to the 8 year old. The first was that he was not supposed to say anything about the game. After saying, “I resign.”, I then told the boy he was not a TD. There was no bullying.

I then began putting my set away, not saying anything else.

After putting my set away I picked up my things and stepped out the door, outside. This is where I told Wayne and a couple of others of my displeasure. The boy was inside and could not hear what I said.

The father went off with Wayne and convinced Wayne to award the draw. Once again the boy witnessed none of this.

It was later when I got home that I called Wayne and told him to give my opponent the win as I had actually resigned and that should stand. It was my idea, after the draw agreement, to give my opponent the win.

You guys assumed the worse of pretty much all those involved in this. And you were wrong on all counts.

I did reach out to my opponent about giving him the win and explain my frustration with this type of interference. Of course I did not blame the boy and told the father this. The father responded very positively and actually expressed his hope the boy would learn from this.

Of course I was and am aware of how to handle this with a warning and at worst a time penalty. This was not my question.

What I want to know is probably something that cannot be, a way to actually rectify the interference.

Bill did get it right on my thoughts during the game. And no one was being malicious at all in this to anyone else.

I completely apologize for my misreading of Mr. Suarez’ initial post. No, I know of no way that Mr. Zimmerle or anyone else on this planet can reliably restore White’s “reverie”, legal or otherwise.

Alex Relyea

[Bob_McAdams]

@Ron Suarez

Now, there are a few points and/or issues that obviously came up:

1. I immediately said that the boy was not supposed to talk to us during the game.

The relevant rulebook term is not talking, but giving of advice (see Rule 20E). It should be noted, in this case, that it would have been legal for the boy to discretely report the illegal move to the TD, and that the boy was only 8 years old and would therefore probably not have known this.

It was certainly a good opportunity to educate the boy on proper conduct as a spectator at a tournament. But the real question is what effect the advice had. If the players noticed the error within 10 moves, the error would have been corrected, and I doubt that the error would have gone unnoticed for more moves than that.

2. The boy calling this to our attention broke the father’s reverie and he was no longer going to play in that previous mindset, thereby greatly reducing my chances to accomplish the swindle.

When the mistake was noticed by the players, this would probably also have broken the father out of his reverie, so it is doubtful that the boy’s advice had any significant effect.

3. I resigned in disgust and remonstrated the boy for interfering. I then started putting my set and clock away.

4. I am not the best loser in the world and was quite frustrated and upset. I was actually going to leave the club for an indeterminate amount of time.

5. My immediate frustration was that the game was interfered with and there was no real justice action to make it correct.

If you wanted justice, you should have waited for the TD to return and then made a claim.

6. Yes, I believe the placing of the wrong color piece for promotion was an illegal move and would be treated as such. The TD could have deducted some time from my opponent’s clock at worst. And if the illegal move would have gone on for the minimum 10 moves it would have stayed.

Yes. This is, I think, the most extreme example I’ve ever heard of the possible effects of the 10 move rule: a player forfeiting the queen he should have obtained via promotion, and giving his opponent a queen at the same time!

But the normal penalty wouldn’t be to deduct time from the clock of the player who made the mistake, but rather to add time to your clock.

My opponent convinced the TD to give me the draw to mollify me. Later, the next morning, I called the TD and told him that I indeed had resigned and Wayne and I (the only 2 certified TDs in the club) agreed the game should be scored as a win for my opponent. I communicated with my opponent and he assured me that both he and his son were fine and they really looked forward to continue coming to our club to play. So there was no damage (I am currently on my rating floor (but not for long, I tell you!!)).

I think that showed good sportsmanship on your part. And the willingness of your opponent to give you a draw showed good sportsmanship on his part.

I have witnessed people interfere with games before, usually regarding the clock time. To me it is very frustrating for pretty much everyone. The aesthetics of a US Chess rated game is that it is between the two opponents. There is usually no way to undo the interference and its affect on the game.

In the vast majority of cases, the person interfering is not being intentionally malicious. So I don’t see any kind of justice trying to penalize that person. And penalizing an observer does nothing to justify that interference to the opponents in the game.

Yes, there often is no really good remedy in cases where unsolicited advice is given. That’s why, at the beginning of every tournament I’ve ever run, I’ve always warned both players and spectators not to give advice. And if a player is under time pressure, I also call any spectators watching the game out of earshot and repeat the warning not to point it out if a player’s flag falls.

Bob

[DENTONCHESS]

@brennanprice

@Ron Suarez

. . .

You may or may not have had remedies. That you didn’t obtain any is attributable to the fact that you never actually made a claim, either by calling the Director or speaking up in a timely manner.

Equity aids the vigilent and equitable.

I do believe we have a winner !!

Rob Jones