Suppose an opening theme tournament is held, where the required first moves of every game are pre-announced as 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3.
Are such games eligible for submission as rate-able games, just as any normal chess game would be rate-able?
I remember seeing one advertised in the TLA section about 5-10 years ago. Having said that, I have no idea if they were supposed to or not.
There is nothing in the rule book that says it is legal or illegal. Novelty ideas, the rule book does not need to talk about it. Would have to say it is illegal, as the director would control the opening of the game. If the director has control of the moves during the start of the game, the director can control the moves during the whole game.
Would anyone want to give the directors the power to make the move on move 40 and 41? If a game between two masters, given a class D director the right to make the move on move 40 and 41, are you sure you want the directors too have that right? Then it should be illegal for the directors to make the first and second move.
Doug,
Huh? Nobody is talking about move 40 or 41. No one is talking about the director making moves for players.
If an event is advertised as opening specific (like a French, or Ruy Lopez, or Sicilian, or…) then it is the player’s choice to enter or not enter. Such events fall under rule 1B2 and should have no problem getting rated.
Tim Just
1B2. Major variations. A variation sufficiently major so that it might reasonably be expected to deter some players from entering should be mentioned in any Chess Life announcement and all other detailed pre-tournament publicity and posted and/or announced at the tournament.
Just wanted to be uniformed about the question. If the director can make the move for the first and second move, the director can make the move for move 40 or 41. The first and second move are legal under rule 1B2, just as the move 40 or 41 under rule 1B2. Even with the posted variation, not all the players will understand the variation. During the first round will get players asking what the time control is, even that it has been posted in all pre-tournament publicity.
It’s just a matter of public posting of the conditions before the tournament takes place. As long as you do that, it should be fine. It doesn’t matter if people don’t read it; you did your part.
Go ahead and run a tournament where you decide moves 40 and 41. Let’s see how many people show up, or if you can stop the rioting. 
Doug,
Nonsense.
Tim
Still have rioting on the first and second move, just like move 40 and 41.
Major variations are not going to make anyone happy. Players will be asking what are the time controls, or how many rounds in the event, even if it was in all the pre-tournament announcements. It would be safe to say they did not read the publicity, or they forgotten the printed announcement. When you start to add more variations like the time controls with a delay clock, players will accept in protest. If you start to add more variations, the harder it is to enforce when the players are against the policy.
I’ve played in thematic tournaments that were USCF rated, and I’ve declined to play in at least one rated thematic tournament because I was not fond of the particular opening (I think it was the Winawer French.)
As long as the thematic opening is one that is not a clear win and offers reasonable chances to both side, I don’t see any reason why they cannot be rated, and I see nothing in our procedures to prohibit rating thematic tournaments.
As Tim said, nonsense.
If you run such a tournament, with major variations, not only will you have announcements in the TLA, but also at the tournament site, at the registration desk, in the playing hall, and will also make a verbal announcement at the start of the event. If it’s a 2-day event, you will also talk about it on the second day, because you don’t want players to be uninformed. And if players are against the policy, then tough. They are there and if they don’t like it, you smile as you refund their money.
Don’t make it so hard on yourself. You remind me of my sister-in-law, who unplugs her microwave and stove because she’s afraid there will be a short and start a fire. If you’re that cautious and worried, maybe it’s good thing you don’t try anything new.
Are you still pairing by hand because you don’t know when the computer will make an incorrect pairing and someone might complain?
Radishes
The problem with the thematic tournaments, they are such a novelty and not common. The only thematic tournament that I have been to, would be black got more time on the clock then white. Even with the amount of advertisement of the announcements, the rank and file members will be talking about the novelty. The organizer at the time was a little shock, with the lower than planned amount of players.
If you have a variation in the tournament, the player that does not understand the variation, is going to be unwilling to come. Standard variations like the amount of rounds, the time-control, is or not the delay clocks going to be set back five minutes or not. The standard variations can make some people come to play and some not. If you start to add a variation seasoned players are asking questions, how are the new or first time players going to understand this variation.
If having a thematic tournament, the time controls can be G/10, G/15, G/30, G/45, G/60, G/90. Before the start of the round will roll the dice, if the dices’ number is one it is G/10 … going all the way up to the dices’ number six as G/90. Do you want to go to a thematic time-control tournament because of the role of the dice? Thematic tournaments, if we can get the next US Open time controls settled on the role of the dice! If that happened, the turn-out is going to be very low.
Hmm. What about 1. f3 and 2. Kf2 …?
Or 1. d4 c5 2. d5 b5 …?
Or 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Ne4 …?
I’d LOVE to play in some of those events.
Bill Smythe
I played in 2 theme tournaments about 10 years ago - an English one ( 1 c4 ) and a French one ( 1 e4 e6 ).
Attendance was comparable to other non-theme tournaments run by the same director at the same location. I thought it was a lot of fun.
Both tournaments were rated regularly like any other tournament.
I would have never thought to ask if thematics are ratable.
To push the envelope a little farther … Does everyone agree that a “postional” thematic is ratable? Suppose I have a thematic for my students that involves an IQP position. It’s ratable as long as I can give the 15 or 20 moves that lead up to it?
And what if I gave them a choice of playing one of 2 or 3 different positions? Is that ratable?
Thx
Doug, nolan already said that theme tournaments are ratable.
End of discussion.
The problem with thematic variations, like any openings one name of an open is different in Europe then North America. If the variation called the Sicilian - Moscow Variation, the variation name in ‘New In Chess’ will be different in different chess books. If the players do not understand the variation, why would you want to go to the event?
Now, how many people want to play the variation, if the data base can show the variation has a better chance for black to win. Why would anyone want to play white in the variation? If the data base can show the variation has a better change for white to win. Why would anyone want to play black in the variation?
If you do have a thematic event, the amount of players that will play is going to be small. There are a number of members unwilling to go to any Category D event. If the event is going to be small, it is not worth their time to register. This is the third blow to the thematic tournaments.
With the organizer, it takes time to tell players about the different variations. Even if it has been around for a long time, there will be a number of people confused about the standard variations, even if they have been to the past tournaments. With any variation, it is wise to inform the players about the variation before the start of the tournament. If it is a minor variation, like the time controls with delay clocks, even the time control is a variation some will or will not come.
The variation in the time controls is an issue every organizer and every director has to take into the formatting of the event. Some players will never go to any event slower than G/90; others do not want to go to any event faster than G/60. It is nice having players that do not care what the time controls are, not all players are like that. Just the change in time controls, will sees a shift in the grouping of the players.
Having a variation like a thematic opening, not all the players understand the opening you like. Even in a large city, any thematic event will be small. Having a thematic event in a small community, it should be very small. If you want to spend time and energy on a thematic event, with more advertisement just to explain the variation, with the smaller turn-out, not everyone will like the variation. Thematic events are one way to go into the poor house.
Probably, but this is verging on abuse (since it could easily be used to manipulate ratings). “Pushing the envelope” will eventually lead to tighter regulation, which (in my opinion) is bad for everyone.
Douglas, why must you find obscure objections to everything?
Thematic tournaments are ratable, end of thread.