During a tournament, G/5 a player protested saying all USCF tournaments required a time delay. Upon searching the internet, we couldn’t find anything, and the rulebook gave blitz rules. The argument was, that at the time of printing, G/5 was not rated by USCF.
Is there anything official from USCF on this?
We went ahead and honored his wish and turned it into a G/3 with a 2 second delay, something I think it pretty stupid.
If G/5 is ratable then somebody needs to update the “Allowable Time Controls” flyer. It says the fastest is G/10.
Delay is not required. The organizer may create a time control with a delay, with an increment, or without either (or even with both increment and delay). His “claim” was silly.
Actually, I found two “Allowable Time Controls” files on the USCF site. One said the slowest time control for quick rated events was G/29. The other one mentioned dual-rated events (G/30 to G/60). Somebody needs to eliminate one of these files.
From the “Allowable Time Controls” flyer at:
uschess.org/about/forms/TIME.pdf
“Not using the time delay on delay clocks is also non-standard and also requires notice in all advance publicity and must be posted and announced at the tournament.”
So his claim does seem to be legitimate if pre-tournament publicity did not specify that delay was not to be used. The one question that I have is whether the proper delay is 3 seconds or 2 seconds. 2 seconds is mentioned for blitz chess, but since this time control is now being rated as Quick chess, it could be argued that 3 seconds should be the norm.
martinak,
I read the question differently than you. I thought the player was claiming that the organizer couldn’t have a tournament that didn’t use delay (not true) – NOT a claim that the organizer failed to give proper notice of the (non-standard delay) time controls.
Most blitz tournaments that I’ve run across didn’t have any formal “advance publicity” – club events, mostly. In that case, you just have to make a verbal announcement at the tournament that delay isn’t to be used.
10. Standard delay. The standard delay for Blitz is 2 seconds. (page 292).
The player has the right under the blitz rules (rule 2) of the claim of insufficient losing chances. As the rule is clear (rule 2) on the same rules described in rule 14H. The player has the right to have a time delay clock.
The director should have the rule book at the tournament. The rules are clear, the players have a right for a time delay clock for any USCF rated tournament.
Having the clock at G/3 (t/d 2) is pretty stupid … but … I was not the tournament director. Thunderchicken, this time you are right … the director that set the clock at G/3 (t/d 2) was pretty stupid!
The director should not remove two minutes from the clock. As the players have to make 60 moves to gain back the two minutes. If the flag falls on the 30th move, the player would have used 3 minutes, plus (2 seconds x 30 moves = 1 minute) 1 minute with the time delay. The player would have lost the game with only 4 minutes on the clock. Any game under 5 minutes, cannot be rated.
This is the best reason to have a blitz rating. Having the clock set at G/5 (t/d 2) or G/5 (t/d 3), the clock should be set at G/5 (t/d 2). The real problem happens when you get into G/6, G/7, G/8 and G/9. The G/6 should be within the 2 seconds. It becomes a problem with G/7, G/8 and G/9. If the time delay is set at 2 seconds, than the players would be under blitz rules. If the time delay is set at 3 seconds, than the players would be under quick rules.
There are a difference with blitz rules and quick rules. If the director accepts rule 3A, than a illegal move causes loss of game. If the clock has a 3 second delay, than the opponent gets two minutes added.
When WBCA folded, then-ED Bill Goichberg made an executive decision to allow USCF quick-rating of blitz events, and not to require the delay in blitz events. I think this was posted on the website for a while, but apparently has disappeared.
This seems to make the de facto policy something like this:
A. For regular-rated events (and dual-rated), the standard delay is 5 seconds.
B. For quick-rated events (G/10 to G/29), the standard delay is 3 seconds.
C. For blitz events rated as quick (G/9 or faster), the standard delay is 2 seconds.
D. Exceptions to A and B must be announced in all pre-tournament publicity.
E. Exceptions to C need not be announced in pre-tournament publicity, but must be announced at the tournament (should be posted during registration, so that a player who doesn’t like it can un-register and go home).
Putting on a 2-second delay was fine, but I don’t think you needed to reduce the main control to 3 minutes. You could have left it 5 minutes, or (even better) reduced it to 4 minutes.
For a long time we had “civilized blitz” on Lunt Avenue in Chicago. We used a control of G/6 with 2 seconds, or G/7 with no delay. Any player who furnished a delay-capable clock had the right to insist on the former.
Bill Smythe
This is the problem I have with the time controls of G/7, G/8 or G/9. The director for a G/10 event has the right to have the clock set at G/7 (t/d 3), G/8 (t/d 3) or G/9 (t/d 3) - all are equal to a G/10. As the director can remove 1, 2 or 3 minutes from a time delay clock. But, a director can have a blitz tournament and have the clock set at G/7 (t/d 2), G/8 (t/d 2) or G/8 (t/d 2) – all are under the blitz rules.
Bill Smythe, when will your 6th edition come out?
5C. Quick Chess. … All Quick Chess rules are identical to the regular USCF sudden death rules herein except that scorekeeping is not required …
5F. Standard timer for sudden death. … A delay clock (a clock with time delay or add-back capabilities) is the standard timer for sudden death time controls…
That’s true, I suppose, but what’s so bad about that?
Sure, an event at, for example, G/26 (at least for games with the delay) could be regular-rated, by specifying G/31 and then deducting 5 minutes. Or it could be quick-rated, by specifying G/26 and not deducting. The overlap doesn’t especially bother me.
Bill Smythe
Standard does not mean mandatory. If there was pre-tournament publicity of the time controls, it would need to mention the fact that a non-standard delay was being used – that’s all. If there was no formal publicity (for example, just telling people at a club meeting that there will be a blitz tournament at next week’s meeting), then the only requirement is to announce the policy at the beginning of the tournament.
I’m disturbed by the fact that we have time controls and policies that aren’t documented anywhere (or at least not where they are supposed to be). The rule book can’t cover everything, but when it gives a clear statement of the rules and when we have a document that is supposed to give the “Allowable Time Controls” then they should be RIGHT.
With my blitz tournaments, I use variation 3A. If you have it at G/9 (t/d 2) and make an illegal move you forfeit the game. If you have it at G/9 (t/d 3) and make an illegal move, your opponent gets an added two minutes.
Quote me the rule that says that. If the allowable time controls document were accurate, you could find a rule that says anything faster than G/5 is not ratable, but nothing that states that a game actaully has to last for five minutes of time.
I suspect he meant ‘a time control’ not ‘a game’.
However, when time is sutracted from the SD time control (eg, setting the clock at 28 minutes for a time control of G/30 + 2 seconds) this is still considered Game/30.
Thus setting the clock at 3 minutes for G/5 + 2 seconds would still be considered G/5 and thus still ratable as quick chess.
(I think subtracting time from the clock to compensate for increment or delay mode is a dumb rule and I would never permit it at an event I directed, but that’s off the subject here.)
As you should already understand, the 5th edtion does not have that rule within the book. When the rule was changed, it was after the 5th edition was printed and sold. The point of my statement was clear, any game under five minutes cannot be rated. The director can remove two minutes or one minute with a two second delay. But a G/3 (t/d 2) = G/5 or G/4 (t/d 2) = G/5.
What my objection for the G/3 (t/d 2) has been, it takes 60 moves before the opponent gains back the two minutes. If the flag falls before the 60th move, the chess player would have less than five minutes for the game. It is the same reason I have objection for the G/25 (t/d 5) with a G/30 event. As it takes 60 moves to gain back the five minutes.
If you do not have a problem with a G/3 (t/d 2) with a flag fall before move 60, you do not have to have a two second delay for blitz. The standard delay for blitz is 2 seconds, you can always have a non-standard delay. You could always have a 3 second delay, and set the clock at G/2 (t/d 3). You could even have a 5 second delay and set the clock at G/0 (t/d 5). If you have it at G/0 (t/d 5) it will take you 60 moves to gain back the 5 minutes.
This is the reason I do not support the removal of time from a time delay clock. As the non-standard time delay would be breaking the spirit of the rules. Think of it this way, G/3 (t/d 2), G/2 (t/d 3), G/1 (t/d 4) and G/0 (t/d 5). If you look at the letter of the rules, they are ratable time controls. If you look at the spirit of the rules, how can you call a G/0 (t/d 5) a ratable blitz game.
Trust me, I have been around blitz players for years. They come up with the most strange, the most odd time controls you can ever think about. It did take me a long time to accept G/5 (t/d 2), but I am not going to start to remove time from a time delay clock with blitz. When you walk down that road, the blitz players will come up with other ideas. It will not take long before you have non-standard time delay.
If you start to make a claim you do not need to have five minutes, then you can have G/3 (t/d 2) and G/0 (t/d 5) ratable.
What is hard about this? G/3 with a 2 second delay is ratable as G/5. You can’t have nonstandard delay and reduce the base time, at least not so far as I understand. I’d assume that G/0 with 30 second delay would not be dual ratable. Why is this hard?
Alex Relyea
Personally, I think that the rule permitting subtracting time from the clock to compensate for delay/increment mode should not be applicable to time controls faster than Game/30.
However, I’m not on the Rules Committee.
The rules aren’t meant to be interpreted like a poem or bible verse, they’re pretty explicit in this case. If you want to announce in your publicity that you’re going to run a G/30 with time controls of 0 + 30 seconds you can. But there’s no rule requiring people to show up for it. If, as a TD, you deny someone the use of standard delay, you are clearly violating the rules.
10. Standard delay. The standard delay for Blitz is 2 seconds.
1B2. Major variations. A variation sufficiently major so that it might reasonably be expected to deter some players from entering should be mentioned in any Chess Life announcement and all other detailed pre-tournament publicity and posted and/or announced at the tournament.
If you have standard delay, than you have non-standard delay. If the director use rule 1B2, than you can have any type of delay. So you could have G/0 (t/d 30) and have it regular and quick rated. Would not have a tournament like it, as the flag can fall with 30 seconds on the clock.
Think it should not be applicable to time controls faster than Game/35.