Possible clarification in rule 5E.

[DrTodd13]

If you look at rule 5E, it talks about how 2 sec increment or delay is recommended for time controls less than 10 minutes. However, if you specifically look at the blitz rules, it says that blitz time controls have no increment or delay. Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules? Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

[taprie02]

@DrTodd13

If you look at rule 5E, it talks about how 2 sec increment or delay is recommended for time controls less than 10 minutes. However, if you specifically look at the blitz rules, it says that blitz time controls have no increment or delay. Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules? Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

You can have something like a G5;d5 tournament that is played under quick chess rules

[Micah_Smith]

@DrTodd13

If you look at rule 5E, it talks about how 2 sec increment or delay is recommended for time controls less than 10 minutes. However, if you specifically look at the blitz rules, it says that blitz time controls have no increment or delay. Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules? Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

The blitz rules use the words “typically” and “standard” when it talks about using no delay which means you can have delay (or increment) in a blitz time control but that it’s not “typical” or “standard” (something that is thankfully slowly changing with G/3;inc2, the “standard” international blitz time control, slowly becoming more popular in the US). There is also blitz rule 1b which states “Time controls, including the use of delay or increment, are to be stated in any advance publicity and must also be announced or posted at the site.”

I’ve mentioned before that the opening paragraph in the Blitz rules and Blitz rule 1a should be tweaked as it makes it seem like no increment or delay is recommended in blitz but the newer rule 5E recommends two seconds of increment or delay in blitz.

[ericmark]

@taprie02

@DrTodd13

If you look at rule 5E, it talks about how 2 sec increment or delay is recommended for time controls less than 10 minutes. However, if you specifically look at the blitz rules, it says that blitz time controls have no increment or delay. Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules? Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

You can have something like a G5;d5 tournament that is played under quick chess rules

That would still be Blitz, since Quick starts at 11, with base time and delay/increment added together. For some reason, when the Blitz system was implemented, it covered 5 through 10 (rather than 9). G/10 had been Quick-rated since the Quick system was born in the 1990s, but that got absorbed into Blitz for some reason. Not sure if it was deliberate from the gurus who insisted Blitz controls should be rated.

Why I know this: It caused a G/10 event at a club I once frequented to be rated as Blitz, rather than Quick, as the players intended when they decided to hold a rated event on the spot that night. Some knew that Blitz had (at the time) recently become ratable, but no one studied the nuances of where the borders were established between rating systems.

They figured G/10 would be Quick, as it had been for 20 years by then. If a memo ever got sent about the change in rating systems for G/10, no one at that club, including me, got it.

And for the OP: You can use any delay/increment you want, as long as it’s advertised/announced/agreed upon. Years ago, there were default delays for Regular/Dual (five seconds) and Quick, (three seconds), but that is not really the case since the announced delay/increment is factored into the control to determine the applicable rating system.

[brennanprice]

@DrTodd13

If you look at rule 5E, it talks about how 2 sec increment or delay is recommended for time controls less than 10 minutes. However, if you specifically look at the blitz rules, it says that blitz time controls have no increment or delay. Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules? Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

The fact that there are two recommended delays for blitz is an artifact of a period of delegate activism with the US Chess rules, culminating when the sixth edition was changed just weeks after it as printed.

The purpose of the recommended delays is to give players recourse when an organizer fails to specify a delay in advance publicity and tries to spring the abomination that is d0 on the field without warning. It’s just as much an abomination at blitz as it is at standard.

[Terry_Winchester]

@DrTodd13

Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules?

5E states that Standard Blitz uses no time delay, or increment. Standard being 5 minutes, as in Chapter 11.

@DrTodd13

Anyway, I think there could be some clarification in rule 5E to say NON-BLITZ time controls less than 10 minutes is recommended 2 sec inc/delay but also provide a reference to the section on blitz time control.

Not needed as a reading and thoughtful reflection of the current rules should be sufficient. We don’t want a 32 volume rule set to cover every possible situation.

[Micah_Smith]

@Terry Winchester

@DrTodd13

Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules?

5E states that Standard Blitz uses no time delay, or increment. Standard being 5 minutes, as in Chapter 11.

Rule 5E does not state this. Rule 5C mentions this in a TD tip and, along with the opening paragraph in the Blitz rules and Blitz rule 1a, is out-of-date and should be tweaked.

uschess.org/docs/gov/chessru … 1_v7.0.pdf

[Terry_Winchester]

@Micah Smith

@Terry Winchester

@DrTodd13

Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules?

5E states that Standard Blitz uses no time delay, or increment. Standard being 5 minutes, as in Chapter 11.

Rule 5E does not state this. Rule 5C mentions this in a TD tip and, along with the opening paragraph in the Blitz rules and Blitz rule 1a, is out-of-date and should be tweaked.

uschess.org/docs/gov/chessru … 1_v7.0.pdf

Correction noted.

How is Blitz rule 1a out of date? Out of date of what??

[Micah_Smith]

@Terry Winchester

@Micah Smith

@Terry Winchester

@DrTodd13

Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules?

5E states that Standard Blitz uses no time delay, or increment. Standard being 5 minutes, as in Chapter 11.

Rule 5E does not state this. Rule 5C mentions this in a TD tip and, along with the opening paragraph in the Blitz rules and Blitz rule 1a, is out-of-date and should be tweaked.

uschess.org/docs/gov/chessru … 1_v7.0.pdf

Correction noted.

How is Blitz rule 1a out of date? Out of date of what??

It makes it seem that no increment or delay is recommended in blitz but the newer rule 5E recommends 2 seconds or increment or delay for blitz.

[brennanprice]

@Micah Smith

@Terry Winchester

@Micah Smith

@Terry Winchester

@DrTodd13

Is there such a thing as a 5 minute time control not played under the blitz rules?

5E states that Standard Blitz uses no time delay, or increment. Standard being 5 minutes, as in Chapter 11.

Rule 5E does not state this. Rule 5C mentions this in a TD tip and, along with the opening paragraph in the Blitz rules and Blitz rule 1a, is out-of-date and should be tweaked.

uschess.org/docs/gov/chessru … 1_v7.0.pdf

Correction noted.

How is Blitz rule 1a out of date? Out of date of what??

It makes it seem that no increment or delay is recommended in blitz but the newer rule 5E recommends 2 seconds or increment or delay for blitz.

The new 5E is grounded in the former imposed-by-fiat delays, in the good old days when G/5 was a complete time control and understood to mean G/5 d2.

The delegates abandoned the delays by fiat when Steve Immitt wanted to continue deducting five minutes from the base G/30 time control of Four Rated Games Tonight. Then they stopped running Four Rated Games Tonight, and here we are.

[Steve_Immitt]

@brennanprice

The new 5E is grounded in the former imposed-by-fiat delays, in the good old days when G/5 was a complete time control and understood to mean G/5 d2.

The delegates abandoned the delays by fiat when Steve Immitt wanted to continue deducting five minutes from the base G/30 time control of Four Rated Games Tonight. Then they stopped running Four Rated Games Tonight, and here we are.

Hi Brennan,

As you had referred to the "4 Rated Games Tonight!" tournaments, here is some background on those events:

chesscenter.cc/fourratedgamestonight.htm

uschess.org/msa/TnmtLst.php?TONIGHT;0

MSA only goes back to 1991, unfortunately:
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php … 0-10125391

uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?199406233510.0

chesscenter.cc/jun05/fs-4rgch-05.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200506237601.0

chesscenter.cc/jun06/fs-4rgch-06.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200606228691.0

chesscenter.cc/jun08/fs-4rgch-0626-08.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200806262571.0

chesscenter.cc/jun09/fs-4rgch-0625-09.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200906256421.0

chesscenter.cc/jun10/fs-4rgch-0624-10.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201006243531.0

chesscenter.cc/jun11/fs-4rgch-0623-11.htm
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201106239521.0

Our largest Thursday Night Action: uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201207126732.0

chesscenter.cc/jul12/fs-4rg-25years-12.htm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17422

Hurricane Sandy had turned off the lights to Manhattan, but only south of 34th Street that night:
uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201211014402

I could not afford to keep those events going, and the last one run by the Chess Center of New York was on February 14th, 2013:  [uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201302141892.0](http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?201302141892.0)

[Smythe_Dakota]

Well, here’s my take:

• Any blitz rule (including U.S. Chess Blitz Rule 1A, apparently) that suggests that zero-increment, zero-delay is “standard”, “common”, “recommended”, etc, for blitz, was written in the Neanderthal age and should be ignored, ridiculed, scorned, and discarded immediately.
• Blitz should ALWAYS be played with a 2-second increment. The main time can then be anywhere from 3 minutes to 8 minutes, and be U.S. Chess ratable as blitz.

Keep in mind that mm + ss determines the rating system. (That’s main time in minutes, plus increment or delay time in seconds.) Between 5 and 10 (inclusive) is blitz, 11 or more is quick. (Well, 30 or more is regular.)

If you prefer a 3-second increment, it would be better to make your event quick rather than blitz, with mm + ss being between 11 and 29 inclusive.

Bill Smythe

[Micah_Smith]

@Smythe Dakota

Well, here’s my take:

• Any blitz rule (including U.S. Chess Blitz Rule 1A, apparently) that suggests that zero-increment, zero-delay is “standard”, “common”, “recommended”, etc, for blitz, was written in the Neanderthal age and should be ignored, ridiculed, scorned, and discarded immediately.
• Blitz should ALWAYS be played with a 2-second increment. The main time can then be anywhere from 3 minutes to 8 minutes, and be U.S. Chess ratable as blitz.

Keep in mind that mm + ss determines the rating system. (That’s main time in minutes, plus increment or delay time in seconds.) Between 5 and 10 (inclusive) is blitz, 11 or more is quick. (Well, 30 or more is regular.)

If you prefer a 3-second increment, it would be better to make your event quick rather than blitz, with mm + ss being between 11 and 29 inclusive.

Bill Smythe

I agree

[BIRDSNAN]

@Smythe Dakota

Well, here’s my take:

• Any blitz rule (including U.S. Chess Blitz Rule 1A, apparently) that suggests that zero-increment, zero-delay is “standard”, “common”, “recommended”, etc, for blitz, was written in the Neanderthal age and should be ignored, ridiculed, scorned, and discarded immediately.
• Blitz should ALWAYS be played with a 2-second increment. The main time can then be anywhere from 3 minutes to 8 minutes, and be U.S. Chess ratable as blitz.

Keep in mind that mm + ss determines the rating system. (That’s main time in minutes, plus increment or delay time in seconds.) Between 5 and 10 (inclusive) is blitz, 11 or more is quick. (Well, 30 or more is regular.)

If you prefer a 3-second increment, it would be better to make your event quick rather than blitz, with mm + ss being between 11 and 29 inclusive.

Bill Smythe

I point out that the purpose of delay is to prevent the running out of clock in drawn position

[wilecoyote]

@Smythe Dakota

Well, here’s my take:

• Any blitz rule (including U.S. Chess Blitz Rule 1A, apparently) that suggests that zero-increment, zero-delay is “standard”, “common”, “recommended”, etc, for blitz, was written in the Neanderthal age and should be ignored, ridiculed, scorned, and discarded immediately.
• Blitz should ALWAYS be played with a 2-second increment. The main time can then be anywhere from 3 minutes to 8 minutes, and be U.S. Chess ratable as blitz.

Keep in mind that mm + ss determines the rating system. (That’s main time in minutes, plus increment or delay time in seconds.) Between 5 and 10 (inclusive) is blitz, 11 or more is quick. (Well, 30 or more is regular.)

If you prefer a 3-second increment, it would be better to make your event quick rather than blitz, with mm + ss being between 11 and 29 inclusive.

Bill Smythe

The Blitz rules in the US Chess Official Rules of Chess were GM Walter Browne’s rules from the (now defunct) WBCA. Those rules predate digital clocks. (If that’s not the right name of the organization, I welcome correction. It predates my knowledge of how to play chess.)

Blitz rule 1A is an unintended contradiction of the more modern rule 5E and should be eliminated. G/3 inc/2 appears to be growing in popularity and may overtake G/5 d/0 in the future. (Personally, that still mystifies me. I understand the rationale for increment, but G/3 inc/2 requires 60 moves to produce five minutes per player. I’m not convinced most blitz games last 60 moves. But, then again, I’m allergic to blitz. )