Sorry if this is a repost. please post a link to old thread and I’ll read. Anyway, we are going to start doing uscf rated QC tourneys in our club again soon. A few of the members have concerns with using a delay. They are used to just plain time controls such as G/20 or G/25 etc. when we throw a tounament can we accounce that no delays are allowed or if someone wants to play with delay we have to let them setup delay? Lastly, if you have a setup were two players have delay clocks but only one of them wants to use the delay then is it black that decides if the delay is used?
If you want to not use delay, announce it in advance of the tournament that you will not be using delay.
If you do not announce that you are not using delay, you must allow it.
If you announced no delay, you can enforce not allowing it.
If you do not announce that you are not using delay, and two players have clocks and one wants to use delay, they have to use delay whether they or white or black.
If you announced no delay, neither can use delay.
By far the best policy, though, is to use the delay. Your players will get used to it quickly, and will soon like it.
The TD has the right to shorten the main time, in minutes, by up to the delay, in seconds. For example, with quick chess, where the normal delay is 3 seconds, you can reduce the main time by up to 3 minutes in games where the delay is being used. But I’d recommend you not do this. Reward players using the delay with a little extra time.
I agree that ‘subtract X minutes from the clock when the delay is X seconds’ is undesirable. IMHO this option should now be EXPRESSLY BANNED in the rulebook.
Based on the announcements I heard every round last weekend, it seems like the country’s biggest adult organizer STRONGLY AGREES with subtracting X minutes from the clock. Interesting…
I like having the option especially for scholastic sections or when there is a time limit on how long we have the site. Why does it hurt to have it the way it is – an option with a recommendation that you don’t use unless really necessary?
I like delay.
As a TD why do you want to deal with 14H? Espcially in a small tournament where you might be playing. Of course, a lot of club & local TD’s still don’t apply it correctly.
I was guilty as a player of not knowing about the draw automatic draw offer: I once demanded the delay clock (My position was better but needed a few minutes to convert against a pesky rook) and a NTD actually gave it to me. I was able win.
If you can draw or win a game with just automatically moving the pieces in 5 seconds then that seems like a better outcome of the actual game within the time limits then your flag falling perhaps only because your opponent is faster in physically moving the pieces at the end.
I guess I personally would like to play with a accumulating bonus – not too practical for a lot tournament formats where folks want rounds to start on time (or earlier). We already get a ton of byes/withdrawals from folks who can’t play the whole tournament.
I think we’ll eventually get to the point that this is obviously the right thing to do. I’m not sure we’re there yet, but the sooner the better as far as I’m concerned.
If it’s possible to lose the game on time after 115 minutes during the first time control, it’s just not right to call it a 2 hour time control.
In fact, as far as I’m concerned, announcing G/120 and then running it as G/115 constitutes a truth-in-advertising problem. That’s especially true now that at least 90% of tournament games are now being played with the delay.
thanks for the replies. I’ll probably start with no delays. More than half the memebers have chronos clocks and none of them know how to change settings. getting them to set a delay will be like pulling teeth until I look up how to change clock settings. the digital clock i use is easier to set. I know it’s the players responsiblity to know how to set clock, but I rather know how to change settings before I tell everyone to use delay. I agree with not wanting to deal with 14H claims especially when we have at least two members which love that claim. it’s used at least 3 - 4 times during tournaments. it’ll go over “nice” whenwe start to use delays and they find out 14H claim don’t count anymore, lol.
There are some tournaments that the subtraction is necessary to stay on schedule. G/30 with short breaks between rounds tend to need the subtraction to stay on schedule. Some people have suggested change the schedule, or change the time limit.
Sometimes changing the schedule doesn’t work. Suppose you have a schedule like this: 12:00, 1:15, 2:30, 3:45, 5:00 and you have to be out of the building by 6:30. If you add 15 minutes extra between each round you get a schedule that looks like this. 12:00, 1:30, 3:00, 4:30, 6:00. (Not going to be done before closing time!) The organizer could chop off a round, but maybe it’s a very popular format and the players want 5 rounds.
Changing the time control to G/25 is a problem. G/30 becomes G/25 D5 with the subtraction and is rateable under the regular system. Can the organizer advertise his tournament as G/25 D5, and tell players with analog clocks to add 5 minutes? Obviously making players with analog clocks play G/25 is an issue because that time limit is quick rated only.
I think tournaments with 2 controls shouldn’t have to subtract time. If time is subtracted, maybe it should be on the second control. 40/2 SD/55. Most tournaments with long time controls allow at least a half hour between rounds which is enough time even if a game goes the distance.
I suppose the subtraction is done on the longer control to be consistent with the subtraction done on short controls of an accelerated schedule. I played this past weekend where no subtraction was done on either the G/60 rounds on the 2 day schedule, or the 40/2 g/60 rounds regular schedule. There were a few delays on the accelerated schedule, but by the merge everything was on schedule.
When I have the weekly (as in, most every Thursday for the past 22 years) Thursday Night Action Tournament, the players have repeatedly said that they don’t want their results quick-rated only. They want their results regular-rated mainly (and probably don’t care about the quick ratings too much anyway). If it were advertised as G/25 + 5’ delay, it would only be quick-rateable. If all the games are G/30 plus 5’ delay, the rounds would almost certianly take longer than one hour. As it is, the tournament is run on a very tight schedule, with 15 minutes per round. Many games do, in fact, go right to the end, and it’s quite likely that the rounds would all be delayed as a result. If the last round were rescheduled to start later to accommodate the lack of 5-minute deduction for each side, the tournament would end too late for many players, or would have to start too early for many players.
The combination which I currently use, and have used for many years, is the optimum one for regular-rating a four-round action tournament which must be completed in one evening and still attract players.
Advertising G25 D5 means that the event should be rated as Quick only.
Advertising G30 and subtracting 5 minutes for those with delay clocks is legal - but note that
it has been deprecated for many years and it would be a reasonable assumption that eventually this might be banned.
No - my recollection is that this has been considered, and it is correct to subtract the time from the first time control.
In any event, subtraction is allowed, but deprecated. I would only consider subtraction if there were a real, demonstrated scheduling problem.
I note that in many instances, the time-delay actually shortens the game. Players will agree to a draw rather than trying to blitz their opponent. Also, I think I would consider using a 3-second delay before I would subtract time off the clock. Perhaps a compromise position might be to use a 3-second delay and subtract 3 minutes off the clocks.
Note that even with the subtraction, if you use delay you no longer have a fixed round time. It’s still possible for a game to continue for a very long time. An event with a very tight schedule will still need some way of adjourning/adjudicating games.
As a frequent player at Steve’s Thursday Night Action, I can see why he has to reduce the the time to accommodate the delay. I’ve seen many 50+ move games with both players using all their time. I would find nyself in many cases being forced to take a last round bye, son I’n stil assured of making the 12:30 train. I don’y want to make the 1:30 am ytain.
Since delay is now considered the de facto standard, I see no reason not to strike the wording from the rule book that states you can reduce the number of minutes in a game by the number of seconds for the delay.
Rather, it might be prudent to say a TD can add time to an analog clock, up to 3 minutes, but no more than 1 min per every 10 minutes of the sudden death time control. (With a minimum of 1 minute allows for sub 10 minute games). And this would be considered a deviation from the normal time controls.
-Add that if players are playing with an analogue clock with added time, they can not request a delay clock later in the game, and that neither player can request a game be drawn by “insufficiant losing chances”.
I’ll admit, the argument in favor of subtraction becomes a little stronger if the time control is faster.
As an extreme, G/10 is best played at G/8 with a 3-second delay. (A subtraction of 2 minutes seems more appropriate here than 3 minutes, IMHO.)
It seems to me this problem could best be solved with a simple rule change. A tournament should be regular-ratable if the main time in minutes, plus the delay time in seconds, adds up to at least 30 (with the delay time permitted to account for at most 5 of the 30). Thus, games played with delay-capable equipment would be conducted at G/25 d/5, while games played with analog clocks would be G/25, and still be regular-ratable.
This would go a long way, also, to solving the other problem with these tournaments: the tendency of some players to prefer non-delay clocks in order to get the extra 5 minutes of main time.
I’m disappointed that you have chosen the reactionary approach rather than the leadership role.
With all those Chronos clocks you speak of, surely you could borrow one of them (and its manual) for a few minutes and learn how to set it for the delay. Then, on tournament day, you could show the others.
Go ahead and pull teeth if you have to. Resistance will be short-lived, and soon you will have a bunch of players grateful to have been brought into the 21st century.
I purchased my first Chronos in 1999 or so. I soon discovered a way to set up the clock that is actually simple.
I would be happy to consult with anyone that would like a simple way to set the clocks to what they want. For instance if someone wants to set the time control at G/80 with a 5 second delay, I would tell them a very easy way to set a clock for that.
The setup I first talked of here is one where the clock can be set up with 3 different memories that allows a person to get to their desired time control with no more than 3 button pushes from the clock being off.
If a person only wants a single time control available, it can be set up so that you are there with a single button push from the off position.
So, if anyone wants to know the simple way to do this, let me know via PM or email and I’ll gladly share this information with them.
(My position was better but needed a few minutes to convert against a pesky rook) and a NTD actually gave it to me. I was able win.