In the tournament that I am currently running, one of the players set his clock without delay. His opponent believed that there was delay on the clock, and was quite surprised that there were only two seconds left in the game.
What I want to do is somehow punish the player for setting the clock without delay, as I believe that delay is standard, and a reasonable expectation without an express announcement to the contrary. I also told another player that he had to use the delay with the full time on his clock.
Can you help me formulate a comprehensive policy that requires people to use the delay feature of a digital clock or announce to the director that it is impossible to do so in advance. I believe that as long as I announce these policies and publish them at the tournament site, I can modify the rules in this way. Is this also correct?
The rule book requires players to explain the functions on the clock if the opponent doesn’t understand them. Seems to me that this player violated two chess rules–he didn’t explain the functions to the other player, and he didn’t follow TD instructions to set the delay on clocks that permit this setting.
Unless there are unusual circumstances, I think I would invoke the usual miscellaneous penalty, which is adding two minutes to the opponent’s clock.
If you announced that players must use the delay if available, then I think you can enforce this time penalty, even if you didn’t warn them in advance what the penalty would be.
I agree with Brenda, add 2 minutes to the opponent. If possible at that point in the game, I’d probably require the clock owner to activate the delay feature as well.
Following is a notice I post at my tournaments. It scares most players into setting the delay. So far, I’ve never had to go beyond remedy 1, and I’m not sure I’d actually dare to use 3 or 4, but the threat is generally sufficient.
If anybody would like a Word or HTML version of this, send me a private message, including your email address, and I’d be happy to send it as an attachment.
Bill Smythe
[size=200]Dirty Pool[/size]
It is DIRTY POOL to use a digital clock without setting the delay. Such a setting can confuse the opponent into believing there is a delay when there is none. This confusion can result in questionable time forfeit claims and unnecessary disputes.
If you furnish and use a digital clock without the delay set, any or all of the following may happen to you:
The TD reserves the right, at any time during the game, to point out to your opponent that the delay is not set.
The TD may allow your opponent, at any time during the game, to substitute ANY other clock, digital or analog, furnished by him.
If you claim a draw by insufficient losing chances, the TD may summarily disallow your claim and subtract time from your clock. Your opponent, however, will receive the usual kind, gentle treatment should he make such a claim.
If you claim a win on time, the TD may dismiss your claim and give your opponent up to 5 minutes, plus delay time, to finish the game or reach the time control. No such consideration, however, will be given to you, if the shoe is on the other foot and your opponent claims a win on time.
If the tournament has two time controls (such as 40/120 followed by SD/60), the delay should be turned on for both controls. Clocks which do not permit this, such as the Saitek and FIDE, should be set for just one time control, with the delay on. After move 40, reset the clock manually, again with the delay on.
If your opponent furnishes a digital clock, you should watch its operation closely, during the first few moves, to make sure the delay is on. Request TD assistance if necessary.
During my last tournament, watched two players with an analog clock. Did see one players flag fell, in a few seconds the other players flag fell. The game ended in a draw, as both players flags were down. What would you do under you’re rule 4, if the digital clock was set without time delay, and both clocks time ran down to 0:00? Would you reset the clocks to show 5:00 (t/d5) vs 0:00, making the non-owner of the clock win the game on a reset clock?
I agree with the penalty recommendations here if an announcement or posting is made prior to the tournament. However, it seems to me that penalizing a player for not putting the delay on a delay clock is a little outside the rulebook in the absence of a specific announcement.
My position is based on the following thoughts: First, some of the clocks are complicated, and just because one can play chess doesn’t mean one can program a VCR. Second, not putting the delay on a delay capable clock may or may not work out to the advantage of the clock’s owner. The owner cannot possibly know before the round starts whether he, or his opponent, will benefit most from the lack of a delay. Third, seasoned tournament players ought to notice before the last two minutes of the game that the clock being used has no delay set. Fourth, why should a player who didn’t know and didn’t notice that he was playing with a digital clock with the delay not set be given a break by having time added to his clock when players in the same round are playing with analog clocks?
And fifth, I think the rulebook already covers this situation. Under “Equipment Standards”, 42B Digital Clocks says in part “…the provider should, upon request, explain all relevant operational facts…”. If it isn’t your clock, it is your responsibility to find out how it is set before the round starts. It would be wrong to penalize the clocks owner if he/she was never asked how the clock was set unless the owner could reasonably expect to gain advantage from an “implied delay”. Also, the “TD tip” following rule 14H2d says in part “There is no rule allowing players, after the game has started, to ask for a properly set delay clock to be placed on their game, which would replace an analog clock or delay clock not set properly” Clearly, this tip anticipates problems with delay clocks, and makes it the responsibility of the players, not the TD, to discover whether the clock is set properly BEFORE the round starts.
Looking at the post by Bill Smythe, can understand why a director does not want to make a ruling on ‘insufficient losing chances’. Have watched a number of games with ‘insufficient losing chances’ and both players play on – with delay clocks on, delay clocks off and analog clocks. As just players, they are thinking of the game not the claim. When a player is down to less then twin minutes, or both players are down to less then two minutes on the clock. They are not thinking of what is written on page 49 - 55 of the rule book.
Having a time delay clock makes the claim of ‘insufficient losing chances’ null and void. With making a big deal of the delay clock, will make more players understand about the ‘insufficient losing chances.’ There will be players with analog clocks, and there will be players with analog clocks when they trow dirt onto my grave. With making it a big deal to force owners of delay clocks to use delay time, only makes owners of analog clocks more informed about their rights to ‘insufficient losing chances’.
As rfeditor suggests, I don’t deduct for time delay, and in fact when the top two players in my tournament were to start at 115 minutes, I made them add back the time.
When the situation arose, I did exactly as Nolan suggested above, which gives me great peace of mind. Apparently I need to post something that says that there will be some sort of penalty for using a digital clock without delay. The opponent of the player whose clock it was said later that he saw seconds counting down at the beginning, so he assumed that it was a delay. Certainly I don’t check the clock all the time when I am playing to make sure that it is working properly, and I don’t expect other people to, either.
Peppergt makes a good point above when he says that this should be clearly announced at the beginning of the tournament. I believe that there is no way that a clock that is capable of a delay setting should be used without it, at least in a sudden death time control. Sometimes I forget that what I think is obvious (for example the time of the rounds being posted on the door to the tournament hall should make the round times obvious) to me isn’t always obvious to my players.
5F, page 10: “a) The TD has the right to shorten the basic time control, up to the number of minutes equal to the time delay used in seconds … TD TIP: Using (a), while acceptable, is also a problematical option that does not ocme highly recommended due to the confusion involved in properly setting an assortment of different clocks from a variety of manufacturers, with diverse time control settings.”
The player did notice, the flag did not fall, it just got to 2 seconds. The clock a digital game timer 2 had a small second display, at the beginning of the game the player looked over and saw it counting down from around 3 seconds and believed this was the delay. However one doesn’t notice until the situation becomes critical that there is a problem. All clocks in the tournament were set for 2 hrs or game in 120 minutes both digital and analog. So there was no telling factor, until the player began to try to take advantage of the delay and suddenly noticed no matter how fast he moved he was not getting any benefit.
I wasn’t aware that you don’t reduce the time when using delay anymore. That was news to me. I guess I haven’t spent enough nights with the 5th edition by my pillow! While I mostly play in my own tournaments I do travel some, so I’m surprised I haven’t run into someone who wanted to set the clock to the full time AND have delay. I guess it just isn’t well known in certain parts of the country.
Anyway, if the player noticed it with two seconds left I would just replace the clock with one that supported delay and give them 2 seconds with a 5 second delay. I don’t see what else you can do at that point.
Its’ very much up to the director, reduce the time or not. Since players do like a G/60 (t/d5) then a G/55 (t/d5), have made the start of the last round be at 6:00 PM then at 5:00 PM. Since a G/60 (t/d5), can take a long time to be done – I’m not going to rush into making pairings of the next round.
With a G/60 without time delay, the game will be over in 120 minutes or 2 hours. With a G/60 (t/d5), the game could be over in 130 minutes or even in some long move games in 135 minutes. Without time delay, you could have a 4 round G/60 with a hour lunch with round times of 10 AM 12 PM 3PM 5PM. Since having it at G/60 (t/d5), had to set the round times at 10 AM 1PM 3:30PM 6PM. Other directors have even shorten the hour lunch to a half a hour lunch, and added a half a hour to the event. Going from a 4 rd G/55 (t/d5) to a 4 rd G/60 (t/d5), its’ going to be a hour longer before you get home.
That’s pretty much what happened except the TD added 2 minutes for 1) failure to follow instructions , 2), if 30 moves had been played that’s 150 seconds that a player would have lost off the clock 3)The objecting player had been penalized because he was having to move far faster than what he normally would have in the last few minutes.
Doug, as usual you’re a genius at taking somebody’s suggestion to an illogical extreme. Nope, I wouldn’t do that at all. If I saw a double time-scramble with no delay, I would just stand there and watch, waiting for one of the players to say something. I might even watch from 15 feet away, to make it harder for the players to say something. Once both clocks run out, I would still not intervene. As soon as either player calls a flag, I would declare the game drawn unless checkmate has already occurred.
I think it is up to the TD (not the players) whether or not to reduce the primary time control. I think the reason revolves around whether or not the playing site is available on an unlimited time frame.
Of course, and this is the reason for posting a “Dirty Pool”-type notice. I just wish that more organizers would post such notices.
This argument could just as well be used the other way around. The clock may be complicated enough (or confusing enough) so that the opponent (the clock’s non-owner) might not realize, for a long time, that the delay is not set. Some clocks, for example, have only Bronstein mode, which incorporates the delay into the main time, and most of these show only hours and minutes, not seconds, until the time goes below 60, 20, 10, or even 5 minutes.
The point is to improve the quality of justice, regardless of which player ends up benefiting from the delay. In addition, some players may deliberately omit the delay, if they know they typically play faster than most of their opponents.
On some clocks (e.g. Saitek) the lack of a delay may not be obvious until the 5-minute mark (see above). By this time, adrenalin is pumping, and one really ought to excuse a player for not noticing at that point.
Because at least the players with the analog clocks would know, from the outset, that there is no delay.
Some players prefer not to be seen as obnoxious, as they might be seen if they asked a lot of pointed questions at the start of the game. Courtesy should not be punished.
It’s not “anymore”, it’s always. Deducting 5 minutes in games with a 5-second delay has always been permitted, and still is, but it’s always been optional, and still is. It’s completely up to the TD. I think it’s about 50-50 in practice.
One large organizer, CCA, deducts 5 minutes, which has led some players (and TDs) to believe this is the standard.
