I can only speak for Indiana. Indiana has a 3rd grade and under State Championship Title. JTP is not allowed for this tournament, obviously for the 3rd grade and under section.
Illinois has K-1 individual and team champions, 2-3 individual and team champions, 4-5 individual and team champions, 6-8 individual and team champions.
It also awards K-12 All Grade individual and team championships.
I am not sure what the High School associaton hands out.
This came up because IL, which awards such a title and has for a number of years, is now considering making the 3 and under sections JTP.
This came up because IL, which has awarded a title in this section for many years, is considering running this section as JTP.
In the interest of promoting chess play, I have a little trouble understanding what difference it makes to anyone whether the players are USCF member players or JTP players. To me, the point is that these children are K-3, don’t want a magazine, if they do, they can join. The USCF allows the rating of primary sections to include JTP players (except for USCF Nationals) To me its seems pretty simple.
IHSA awards a HS team championship. ICCA (Illinois Chess Coaches Assn), under the auspices of ICA, awards an individual HS champion.
And you made it clear that both of these are not USCF membership or rated play. Correct.
Several confusing issues:
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I am not referencing what has happened in the past. I am stating an opinion as to how it SHOULD work. Players should not expect to win the championship of an organization to which they do not belong.
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ICA did not cede “the rights to run Illinois Scholastic Chess Championships to the CoChess organization with as far as I know, no stipualtion of membership.” ICA CONFERRED the rights for CoChess to run the K-8 championship for some period of time. ICA is the only Illinois organization with the ability to confer a USCF recognized state chess championship or to allow someone else to do that on their behalf.
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The CoChess organization does offer an optional membership, but at this point requires no membership. I understand. I was one of the primary designers of CoChess. CoChess was also eventually to incorporate, and to my knowledge, never has, which means that officially it doesn’t even really exist at this point, I believe. My understanding is that ICA has expressed reluctance to continue to extend CoChess the right to confer the K-8 championship unless it gets incorporated.
But again, I am not referring to what happens. I am referring to what SHOULD happen.
- “I guess I am confused by someone I consider to be knowledgeable and who has a history of excellence in the Illinois High School Association (not USCF affiliated) expressing opinion that scholastic chess be held to a stricter standard of membership than the IHSA (Illinois High School Association) and ICCA (Illinois Chess Coaches Association) who has been granted authority by the same body ICA to confer its state championships.”
It’s not a stricter standard. IHSA will not allow ANY other body to require ADDITIONAL membership for one of its championships. IHSA already requires membership by its schools, and schools have been removed from IHSA tournaments because their membership is not up to date. It’s a different membership, NOT a stricter one.
ICCA has (until perhaps the last year or two) required USCF membership in its championship section - not in its grade sections. In just the past few years, the tournament became unrated because the players didn’t want to risk their rating on a fast time control. Only then did ICCA remove the USCF membership requirement. That decision is still being reviewed for whether there is a better alternative.
It’s really not pertinent to whether the JTP should or should not be used for state championships, but as an FYI, according to the cyberdriveillinois.com website, they did finally incorporate as ILLINOIS CO-CHESS ASSOCIATION, INCORPORATED in July of this year.
As a member in an organization, why would I want to confer a title from that organization upon a nonmember – upon someone who cares so little for the organization that they are willing to take the title but not willing to become a member?
That seems pretty simple too.
It’s one thing to promote chess for an “average” rated event. It’s another thing to discuss championships.
I don’t see you raising a question about National championships. Why is the question any less valid for state championships?
As I understand the JTP rules, any K-3 student with a JTP number can play in any K-3 rated event, other than national, whether it is a JTP event or not. In my opinion, all organizers should offer the JTP as an alternative to membership for rated K-3 sections.
In Ohio, the individual state K through grade 3 championship and the K-3 primary championship sections are not USCF rated. I fail to see how the USCF has any say in which sections are championship sections and which are not. Based on my read of the USCF by-laws, there are no restrictions on a state affiliate running non-rated championship sections. It should be the affiliate’s decision on which sections to rate.
Kevin, In Illinois, CoChess has been given the permission from the Illinois Chess Association to confer State Championships. CoChess does not require CoChess Membership for participation in Illinois State Scholastic Championships. Illinois Chess Association does not require membership for participation in the Illinois State Scholastic Championship. If CoChess or the ICA were to decide it does not require USCF membership in order to participate inthe Illinois State Scholastic Championship, it would have every right to do so.
As a member of the ICA and the USCF, I personally see no reason for children 3rd grade and below to be forced to have to purchase a CoChess, ICA, or USCF membership. If the USCF will allow children the opportunity to learn to play chess and play in some rated tournaments in order to find out if they like to play chess, I think it is great. Lets promote chess play first, chess excellence second, chess membership once a kid has decided he wants to be a member, not because he has to be a member in order to play.
I think if the USCF wants to require membership in its tournaments, thats fine. I would personally prefer them to continue to offer children who do not know if chess is something they really like and want to continue playing an opportunity to do so. As far as I am concerned, the USCF is still generating some revenue from USCF rated games. Thats better than some states or high school association who have said they will run non USCF rated chess. I think telling people you don’t want them to play USCF chess is the wrong message to be sending to K-3 grade players if you want them to be 4th to Lifelong players.
Yes, I know retention rates are terrible. Perhaps that correlates with the increase in membership costs as kids grow up, I don’t know. It also correlates with children having other things to do. But I think the truth is the more children who start playing chess, even with a poor retention rate, eventually you should have more adult players and members.
I just can’t understand why someone who I don’t even think is a member of his state organization cares if the state organization requires a 5 year old to join the USCF in order to play in the State Scholastic Championship K-1 section. Seems to me that there should be a lot bigger fish to fry than some kid who doesn’t read and hasn’t figured out if he really likes to play chess yet or not pays $15 more to play chess.
Because it is fundamental to having a USCF and having a state organization – that provide continuity and titles.
IT’S the championship, not a random event. I’m not arguing that players shouldn’t have an opportunity to learn whether they like chess. But a championship is more than that.
From my perspective, it sounds like you want to make championships meaningless. I’m against that.
BTW, I should point out that ICA membership is actually required for these events but that ICA has “looked the other way” in enforcing it. Here are the relevant sections of the ICA by-laws, assuming that there hasn’t been an un-updated change.
Article VII: State Championships
Section 1. Titles. The ICA shall recognize, publicize, and encourage the holding of the following championships each year:
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Illinois Open Chess Championship
Illinois Class Championships
Illinois Rapid Chess Championship
Illinois High School Team Championship
Illinois Grade School Team Championships
Illinois Team Chess Championship
Illinois Women’s Chess Championship
Illinois Junior Invitational Championship
Illinois Amateur Chess Championship
Illinois High School Individual Championship
Illinois Grade School Individual Championship
Illinois State Invitational Chess Championship
Section 2. Recognition. The awarding of the titles in Section 1 may be done by the recognition of a tournament held by another organization, or through the organization of a tournament for that purpose. Unless waived by another by-law, the Board of Directors, or the Executive Board, all title tournaments shall require ICA membership for an individual to participate and that the winner of the title and trophy must be an Illinois resident.
The ID number is irrelevant as far as the JTP rules are concerned.
In fact, we recoommend organizers NOT use the pre-numbered JTP forms (with ID numbers that start with a 2) these days, because doing so will slow down how long it takes to get your event rated, since the office will have to create those IDs manually. That means creating an exception request entry and the office having to react to it, which means a delay of at least one working day.
On the other hand, organizers can use the membership module in the TD/Affiliate Support Area to create JTP IDs right away and still have the tournament rated the same day it ends.
About the only time the green pre-numbered forms are really useful these days is when your JTP event will be mailed to the USCF office anyway.
You seem to be correct in your reading of the rules. You should also note that it does says nothing in the By-law about USCF membership being required.
Honestly, we should probably address the way the by-law has been written. My guess is that almost no team title has been won by schools who hold state affiliates and almost no individual title has been won by a K-8 student who has been an ICA member. I’ll go a little further, I would be very surprised if any K-3 player has been a member of ICA. We should probably update the by-laws to a state of reality.
And obviously, they have looked the other way with the High School Championships also, correct.
Another irrelevant FYI, there are 15 kids for whom we have a date of birth (we have a DOB for about 1/2 of them) who are under 9 years old. So, we do have a few K-3 ICA members.
And for further trivia…the youngest ICA member on record just turned 6 this month.
---- ICA Membership Secretary
So, are we to hold a tournament with only those 15 at K-3 or should we let the 300 or more that we expect to be there play 
I think the JTP rules have been clarified, and then some.