Black has a Chronos set so that the red move indicator lights aren’t lit. White complains. Basically I ruled that it was Blacks choise of equipment and it met the requirements of play. It wasn’t broken, they were just set to off, like the beep noise was set to off. The player with Black also explained that at the end of the time control the clock would not beep nor stop and flash 00:00, that it would roll the time over.
After ruling that Black could use his clock he then said It is OK with me if you change it out with the Club Chronos. (Red flashing lights and all.) White jumped on this offer and so I changed out the clock.
There were no pretournament rules on clock settings other than that they be Game 75 with a 5 second delay.
I did double check the rule book but could find nothing specifically addressing the clock setting issue with the lights.
I use the LEDs myself because I like to see at a glance (even from some distance) if it’s my move or not. BUT, the LEDs use more power and make the batteries run down quicker, and it’s a matter of personal choice – there’s nothing WRONG with not using them. (of course, I’m still on my first set of batteries after several tournaments so I don’t think it’s a big deal …).
I’d prefer the clock to NOT stop after reaching 0:00. I’m not sure what you mean by “roll the time over”, though.
I’m not quite sure what I mean by roll the time over either. The player said it was set to not stop. What happens when you reach what would have been the zero point? Does it start adding up time? Does it indicate negative time?
If the second time control is G/60 it adds 60 minutes to whatever time is remaining. I think if it’s one control it just goes back to 60 minutes and starts counting down again. There are several settings for the end of time. One setting is whether you want the clock to halt at the end or not. The other setting is whether you want a signal at the end, blinking numerals, beeping, or nothing.
I set it not to halt at the end. The person who runs out of time his time will remain at 00:00, but the opponent’s time will run if his clock is pressed. I also don’t have any beeps or flashing at the end. I’m old school in the sense that I expect the opponent or myself to notice when time has lapsed.
In terms of the LED and beeps draining the batteries; I used the LED and only have had to change batteries once every three years. I like seeing the light to indicate whose move it is.
It was simpler for the TD than resetting all the options on the functioning clock.
The real question probably is was it right to change settings after the game had begun? Both players were in agreement and at that point I was happy to end their dispute and get them back to playing chess. And also not that it makes a bit of difference the game had just begun and only a few minutes had elapsed.
I don’t see the rationale for doing either. Is there a rule somewhere that allows players to change (or change out) a properly functioning clock in the middle of the game?
Well in this case it wasn’t the players changing out the clock. It was the TD.
I can envision other cases where I might change out a clock. Say for example a player had borrowed a clock from someone at the beginning of the round and the person he had borrowed it from has finished their game and needs to leave. And since there are other clocks now available I wouldn’t have a problem changing out clocks in that situation.
What bothers me more here is the changing of the clock settings after the game has started. If the clock settings were obviously wrong I wouldn’t have a problem correcting them. But in this case the settings don’t seem to be obviously wrong, just not what most people are use to.
But in this case after Black conceded to White’s wishes should I have told him “No you have to continue with the way you started the game.”?
Hopefully what we have here is proper use of TD discretion.
Yes, I think so. I had a game with two players at my last tournament that was started with an analog clock. One player was upset because he did not have delay, so he convinced his opponent to change the clock to a digital clock. This was at least several moves into the game, but neither player was in any time pressure. The player then came to me and asked me to set the clock. I told him that he wasn’t allowed to change the clock in the middle of the game. He then went to his father to ask him to set the clock. Thankfully, the father told him that he had to listen to the TD. Apparently at some of the other tournaments that this player had been to, the TDs had allowed the players to change out an analog clock for a digital in the middle of the game, providing such a clock had become available.
I agree here. I wouldn’t change out an analog clock for a digital after the game started but in this case it was digital for digital done at the TD’s convience, not the players. I know how the club clock is set up and saved time simply by matching the time on the other Chronos.
Again the key question is it justified to change the settings. What if beep is on and the players want it off? Or vice versa?
What do you rule if Black starts with beep on and White complains?
In this case noise isn’t an issue to anyone else. It is just the two players playing in a room alone for the City Championship.
The clock was legal. The settings were legal. If the game had already started, my ruling would have been: “play chess”.
I think it was a mistake for the TD to facilitate White’s attempts to negotiate with Black.
There is no requirement for any particular indication of who is on move - the clock in question gave that information by the changing numbers.
There is no requirement for the clock to “halt at end” - in fact, the rules tend to indicate that this setting should be deprecated. I think that “halt at end” solves some problems - but creates others. so…I would not interfere with either setting - it’s Black’s choice.
In single time control settings, I believe that the clock in question will read 0:00:00 when one side flags. “halt at end” affects whether or not the OTHER side continues to function (I think that’s right - but I haven’t checked).
In multiple time control settings, I believe that the clock in question has a bar on the display that changes position to indicate that you are in the next time control.
In both cases, the display tells the whole story.
The LED’s are nice (but not really that effective from “across the room”) - but they do drain the battery faster.
Halting/beeping are a matter of personal taste - just as are other issues involved in the choice of equipment. All of the possible settings are acceptable - and all are Black’s choice.
so…you have a properly functioning clock, chosen by Black, and the game has already begun. The TD’s job is to tell White to “play chess”. As quickly and quietly as possible, so as to not annoy the players at the nearby boards.
TD TIP: There is no rule allowing players, after the game has started, to ask for a properly set delay clock to be placed on their game, which would replace an analog clock or delay clock not set properly. Only the TD can initiate placing a clock with time delay capabilities on a game after a 14H claim has been made and the steps of 14H2 have been applied. As a result, the player wishing to place a time delay clock on the game must first make a 14H claim. The player then faces the possibility that the game may be drawn or may continue without a time delay clock when the TD applies the procedures outlined in 14H2.
Tim basically the claim here from white was that black’s clock was set improperly due to the lights being switched off. In retrospect my initial ruling seems to be correct. Play with the clock. Where I seem to have gone wrong is once I ruled that and White says ok we can change the settings so that the lights are on I agreed to do so. (But I did so by substituting an identical clock.)
To clarify would it then be wrong once a game has started to turn the beep function off?
In my opinion, yes. The beep is legal (annoying to some folk, comforting to others).
On the other hand, it’s not really a big deal.
so…if the players agree to turn it off and just do it - I see no reason to interfere. But, as soon as they call me over to mediate the discussion and make a ruling…my ruling is “play chess”.
What if the clock counts down only by minutes (not seconds), as some do. The White player could legitimately complain that having to wait as a long as 59 seconds for the clock to reveal which player is on-turn is unreasonably long.
Some clocks that count down by minutes toggle-display a colon (‘:’) on the display every second or two. But the rigid rule book approach does not find any requirement that the toggle-display clue occur at the rate of once per second versus once per half-minute, etc.
The principle is that – a quick glance at the clock should be sufficient time to confirm which player is on-turn according to the clock. A half minute would be waayy too long. The lit LEDs would have ended the concern.
The rule book could emphasize this principle, and leave the confirming mechanism up to the clock designer.
.
I don’t see why there should be so much fuss about changing the clock in the middle of the game, as long as the players agree. In this situation, one player was (understandably) concerned about not having the lights on, and the other was (equally understandably) concerned that the batteries might run down during the game, leaving the display blank with no indication of how much time had been used. wzim, either through his diplomatic skills or just plain luck, managed to get the players to agree. He did the right thing.
If the player furnishing the clock had absolutely insisted on using it without the lights on, of course the TD would have to rule in his favor.
I could even imagine – in fact, I saw it happen once – a situation where the TD might want to intervene even if requested to do so by neither player. The clock was set for an extremely loud, obnoxious beep, and was bothering other players in the room. The TD wisely took charge and got the beep turned off.
By the way, for those confused, “halt at end” refers to an optional feature where both clocks stop when either reaches 0:00:00. The idea is to prevent a “double flag” situation, which would result in a draw. This idea was highly touted in the 4th edition rulebook, but seems (mildly) frowned on in the 5th edition.
Hmm. What brand of clock is this that shows no indication of whose move it is? I’ve never seen this. Surely, if the clock doesn’t show seconds, at least it will blink the colon or something.
Just a minor correction here. Black never indicated a concern about the lights running down. That was something posted here as a reason why one might not want to use the lights.