I am TDing a tournament this weekend, but I am not the organizer. I am calculating the prize pay-outs. It is a based-on tournament, and I just found out that the organizer is allowing some of his students to play for free.
So, my question is how do these free entries affect the based-on if nothing was mentioned in the TLA or advertisements? My gut is that if they are eligible for prizes, then they should count, and if they aren’t, then they don’t. I couldn’t find anything in the rulebook that would cover this.
One question is whether the organizer’s students are considered “free” or are sponsored by the organizer out of his own pocket. It would seem unusual for free entries to be awarded to friends of the organizer at the expense of the prize fund. More commonly, free entries go to titled players and/or players who contribute a service to the event (e.g. parent volunteers as a TD/helper → free entry for the kid).
If only 2 or 3 people get free entries, it might go unnoticed. But if a 50 player tournament has 10 free entries, I think the other participants will ask questions about why the prize fund is based on 40 and not something closer to 50.
I would think an entry is an entry, unless the TLA specifically says “paid entries”, then you have to count the students as part of the based on. This is one reason why I don’t like based on prize funds.
Well the first question you asked is if they would be eligible. I don’t see how they could be unless you were only giving out trophies as prizes (or it was a sponsored event) but you asked then about “based on”. So I assume you mean cash prizes.
And I would say they weren’t eligible for any cash prizes. If any of the free entries (if truly free entries and not being sponsored) place in a cash prize position then their prize money goes to the one below them and all the rest of the prize money below them is pushed downward.
Like this:
1st place (paid entry) - $100 & trophy
2nd place (free entry) - $0 & trophy
3rd place (paid entry) - $50 & trophy
4th place (paid entry) - $25
This assume that there are just three winning spots.
And this is ONLY because it’s a “based on” prize fund. The free entries did not contribute to the prize fund and therefore should not receive any of the prize fund. And I say they should receive the trophy because the trophies are NOT a “based on” prize.
If someone were to sponsor the tournament with additional monies, only those monies that were contributed for the tourney should be used for the “free entry” winners.
To take this to a ridiculous situation to make it clearer, assume 10 players show and only one player is a paid entry. This would be simply wrong to have one paid entry to make the prize fund that is given out to all those that didn’t pay. (Unless the paid entry was called a sponsor.)
It’s almost like putting in the ante for a poker game. No ante, no chance to win any money.
My entire thought about this is based on HOW the prize fund is made. If the prize fund is completely generated by paying players, then only paying players should receive prizes. If the prize fund is not from the paying players (in other words, a sponsor), then the fund should be given to those that qualify regardless of their paid/non-paid status.
Or in the case of a prize fund generated by the players and a prize fund from a sponsor(s). Those are two separate prize funds then. And should be treated separately.
I’m sorry. I don’t understand this at all. I can see how the entry fee and the prize money are related, but I can’t see letting people into the tournament and not have them eligible for prizes.
Does this mean that if, say, seniors get half entry, that they should only be eligible for half of the prize that they would ordinarily get? I think you’d find a lot of players, not to mention organizers, in opposition to this.
Anyone entered into the event (not housemen) at any EF (including free) has to be paid according to the based on amount in the TLA using the USCF rules for based on prizes. (So, $600 b/30 with 10 free entries and 10 paid entries must pay out 2/3 (20/30) of the prize fund to all of the players. If the prize fund is less than $500 the proportional amount of prize $$$ is still due to the players.)
Any exceptions to number one must be noted in the TLA. That would include half-entries getting half prizes (free entries getting no prizes, …) and counting as only a half-entry (etc.) towards the based-on total. If the exceptions are not noted in the TLA then the organizer is required to abide by number one above or face possible sanctions if a complaint is filed.
Yes Tim I agree with you, IF it’s known in advance there will be free entrants.
But using your scenario, $600 b/30. EF $30.
30 entrants show up. 29 are free and 1 is paid. Well, 30 people showed up but the tournament only received $30 to pay the winners. Hmmm … somebody is screwed.
So from what I see you (Tim) and Alex saying is that you still have to pay out the funds even though they are non-existent in a case like this to the free entrants.
How about something like this though?
$600 b/20. You get 20 paid entrants and 20 free entrants, total of 40 entries?
I admit that I’ve seen TLA’s that have said “based on xx paid entries”. But not often.
I don’t feel that a free entrant (not a sponsored entrant) should be eligible for any prize money that is based entirely on the fees paid by paid entrants.
And, no Alex, I don’t think anything should change because the entry fee is different for separate categories of players. They paid their ante. They are as eligible as anyone else. (The TD should have an idea of how many 1/2 fee entrants to expect and adjust their “based on” number accordingly. I use 1/2 fee arbitrarily, it could be any amount or percentage.)
If the organizer does something like that, it’s his own fault. He was the one who chose to allow the free entries. The fact that you did not get enough in entry fees to pay the prize fund is not an excuse for failing to pay the prize fund.
Thanks for all the input. I will make sure that the organizer knows that he will have to pay out regardless if the entries are paid or not. I have a feeling that it may come down to the 50% minimum for a prize fund over $500 anyway.
Careful organizers often word their TLA’s this way: “based on 50 paid entries, juniors count half” (if juniors pay half the entry fee). Juniors (and free entries, if any) are still eligible for the full amount of whatever prizes they win.
It is not required, but some organizers will increase the prize fund if they have a paid attendance significantly in excess of their based-on (new prizes might be added and existing prizes may or may not be increased - none of the existing prizes should be reduced). The fixed costs should have been figured into things when deciding on the based-on amount. So if the prize fund is doubled because the attendance doubled, the actual profit would usually be noticeably more than double what the planned (per based-on) profit was.
There may be very rare cases where a guaranteed prize-fund was increased due to greater than expected attendance, but the greater risk of making the guarantee means there is significantly less of a reason for the organizer to increase the prize fund if the risk happened to work out well in that particular tournament. Also, since no based-on would be listed for a guaranteed tournament the players wouldn’t have anything definite to look at to see whether or not the tournament really did exceed the organizer’s expectations.
You can’t expect an organizer to increase a based-on prize fund, and there may be cases where the extra players actually reduce the profit even if only the based-on prizes are paid. Additional space, tables, sets, janitor-time, TDs, etc. might have to be negotiated for.
Even if none of those occur, the additional profit to the organizer may simply off-set losses the organizer has from other tournaments.