I recently noticed a tournament flyer that had prizes as follows:
$1200
1st $250, 2nd $150 Guaranteed. Class prizes (Class A thru Class E) based on 50.
Without mention of what the class prizes were. When I asked the organizers, they said that the class prizes were going to be based on the number of players that show up for each class.
What do you think about that?
What was the entry fee?
It’d be nice if they gave some idea of the range of prizes they MIGHT give out, based on 50 players, but then of course they’d be stuck with having to pay out half of that.
That’s part of the challenge in trying to design a TLA coding system, there’s virtually no limit to the ways organizers can try to structure events, sometimes (it seems) in an attempt to get around the prize payout regulations.
Far too many tournaments seem to be designed to funnel money towards high rated players without the lower rated players having to (or getting to) actually play them. I think there might be more efficient ways to do that.
It’s probably legal as long as they pay what they guaranteed, but I wouldn’t enter. One problem with the formula is that it could end up giving a class player more than first place, which would be disgraceful.
The entry fee is $35 advanced, $40 at site
I assume (based on the $1200) that the class prizes are going to be $900 total based on 50. It does seem like a strange way to structure a prize fund, though.
Alex Relyea
There’s enough ambiguity in what the flyer states (assuming we have all the details) that it seems to me there would be nothing to prevent the organizer from paying out a few additional place prizes with some of that $900. That’s why some indication of WHAT class prizes might be paid would be helpful for people who might not be sure if they want to enter the event.
It seems like the $900 would be the based on pay out. Maybe the organizer is simply looking to divide that up between the players that actually show up.
Instead of being locked into a fixed A,B,C etc prize, if 5 A players show up and 20 B Players show up and 10 C players etc, the Class B prize will actually be larger that the A and C prize. Or maybe there will be a 1st and 2nd B prize vs just 1st in the other sections.
This probably will irritate no end those that believe the prize structure should become smaller as it goes down the classes. But it has the advantage of actually rewarding those players that actually show up to play.
A chess tournament is not a lottery. It is supposed to be a meritocracy, in which those who play the best chess are rewarded. With the breakdown you suggest, a proportional distribution of the remaining $800 would make the “B” prize $457. Since this is larger than first and second combined, it would be kind of pathetic. Granted, it’s not clear that the organizer would actually do that, but that lack of clarity should be enough to keep players away.
What if the organizer wants to reward those that show up to play chess and not the carpetbaggers.
Ideally the first and second place prize guarantee would only be minimums and first and second would be increased to reflect the tournament numbers and to prevent the out of proportion B prize.
I agree that the Tournament Flyer should give a few more specifics.
And at the same time I can see your point of view about the top down thing.
But it also doesn’t quite ring right when say two A players show up and wins more than a B player that had to fight off 10 other B players, especially when say one of the A players withdraws halfway through the tournament.
In my opinion, class prizes should be “under,” not “class.” Why should higher-rated players deserve protection from the lower-rated? If you do it that way, the “B” players are eligible for more prizes than the “A” players.
Another option here would be to have the Class prizes based on x entries.
For example
Class A $125 based on 6
Class B $100 based on 6
Class C $75 based on 6 etc
This way the players would have a better feel for the prizes.
Based on the flyer is this true?
Lets say 35 people show up. Since that is less than 50, only 50% has to be paid out
$1200/2 = $600
1st and 2nd were guaranteed so that leaves $200 for all the 5 class prizes.
1 Master
2 Experts
4 Class A
6 Class B
8 Class C
7 Class D
7 Class E
Based on the entries per class that would mean that the total money available for each Class would be:
A=25, B=38, C=50, D=44, E=44
They have to pay based on the percentage attending. In this case 35/50 or 70% has to be paid out - and the same percentage of each prize. The 50% is just the minimum if 25 or fewer show up.
It seems to me that they would have to pay the $400 place prizes guaranteed plus $800x.7=$560 in place prizes.
I think the 50 percent is the minimum, like for example if less than 25 show up.
Also why would you include the guaranteed amount in your based on amount?
I did notice the the $900 dollar figure we were bantering around should have been $800 — 1200 minus 250 minus 150 = 800
Ultimately what will happen is the organizer will have a poor turn out and not use the above format again, or the players come anyway and make their decision on their experience with the prize division this time.
The guaranteed portion is not included in the based on portion.
The top prizes are guaranteed, regardless of the number of “Class” players.
1st $250, 2nd $150 Guaranteed = $400 All of that (of course) must be paid.
What remains is $800 in class prizes.
How much of that $800 needs to be paid?
A
At a minimum:
A literal interpretation of the wording and punctuation indicates the amount is based on 50 class players
“Class prizes (Class A thru Class E) based on 50.”
By the example given 32 “class players” showed up, or 64% (the Master and Experts don’t count)
64% of $800 = $512
If distributed proportionately as stated to the inquiree then the distribution would be:
A= $64; B= $96; C= $128; D= $112; E= $112
B
A bit more liberal interpretation would be that the 50 is the based on number of total players (including “non-class” players).
Then the proportion needed would be 35/50 = 70%, increasing the prizes slightly.
70% of $800 = $560
If distributed proportionately as stated to the inquiree then the distribution would be:
A= $70; B= $105; C= $140; D= $122.50; E= $122.50
I would expect B, but I would rule A is legal, by the wording (and be disappointed)
This event is definately on my “don’t show up” list.
A total prize fund of $800 is available for class payouts, assuming 10% of entries is master and expert and total entries are reached with an even entry distrilbution this would give 45 players or 9 players per class with each class prize of $160, this would probably be handled as a first of $100 and second of $60 is each class. By not advertizing a first and second for each class the organizer can adjust the class prizes so that if only 5 A players are entered they could award just one A prize instead of two, and if 15 D players players show up they could give a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place awards. This not only prevents the top players from taking most of the money, but rewards those who actually support the event.
This is not a tournament about money, I can make more than $100 working a half day on Saturday and having the rest of the weekend to enjoy. Nor is it about the cost versus payout as all players would spend money for travel and food and maybe lodging regardless of their rating, this is a tournament about having fun and if you cannot play in an event about that why are you playing.
If the tournament really was about having fun, why are there any cash prizes? If you want to have just a fun tournament, offer low entry fees and trophies or some donated non-cash prizes. But I expect you want some people to show up.
Players aren’t interested in how much money you can make on a Saturday, they are interested in how much money they can make. Tournaments without guarantees and that have shadowy based on prize structures turn players off. The event’s prizes should be transparent and calculable. It appears, based on the numbers given that expenses are $550 and prizes will be $1200 or around 68% of total advance entry fees. Don’t worry, players will wonder and ask where the $550 is going to. I expect there are fees for playing room rental, $60 for rating fees, TD fee, and miscellaneous expenses for scoresheets, pens/pencils, etc.