G / 3 (t/d 2) = G / 5 ?

Running Chess Tournaments
21

Let me make it clear, if the organizer demands to have a G/4 (t/d 2) or G/3 (t/d 2), or any delay in a blitz event would not be the director. If was a officer of the club and the President demands this time control would resign my office.

If you can say that G/5 and G/5 (t/d 2) is fine, then you would have to accept G/10 and G/10 (t/d 3) as equal and well as G/60 and G/60 (t/d 5) as equal. If you have board A with G/60 and they made 60 moves and board B with G/60 (t/d 5) and they made 60 moves; then board A would be a board with G/60 and board B would be a board with G/65, most players would be upset if one board is at G/60 and the other board at G/65.

Think as a director not as a player, if you have fifty players for the event will make twenty-five boards for the first round. As you are the director and organizer, you have set up twenty-five sets and boards with clock – all sets, boards and clock are the same, would it be fair as the director to have board 1 to 5 set at G/60 (t/d 5) and board 6 to 25 at G/60. Most players between 6 and 25 would be upset with me, then why not if the times are set at G/60 and G/60 (t/d 5) because some player that has a clock they gotten from the USCF that is not time delay.

As it is starting to be the norm for directors to shorten the time on time delay for classical and quick, making blitz shorter has been explained. As a director, can shorten a classical or quick, now is the norm for a director; if as a director to let G/5 and G/5 (t/d 2) be at par only rewards the G/5 (t/d 2) then punishment for the players that have time delay with a shorter time on quick and classical time control.

Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td

22

As a matter of fact, taking off NO main time to compensate for the delay is the default. Players, when setting their clocks, should not subtract main time unless they know their TD wants this.

Personally, I prefer taking off NO time, and I ran all our tournaments (except Blitz) at the Chicago Chess Club this way. Many organizers of larger tournaments in this area also do it this way.

If a player feels slighted because his nieghbor on the next board has a 5-second delay and he does not, let him furnish a delay clock so that he can get the 5 seconds too.

Bill Smythe

23

Different areas different ideas about time delay, as most directors in Michigan and Toledo Ohio, use as the defalt of taking time off for time delay – does not matter if the director takes time off for time delay or not. If with blitz taking time off for time delay would make someone lose on time with time delay before making 60 moves with a G/3 (t/d 2), making the game less then five minutes.

As a director would make it my standard that time delay would not be used for blitz, for quick take three minutes off the clock with a time delay of three seconds, for classical time control take five minutes off for a time delay of five seconds. If the federation sells clocks with no time delay and clocks with time delay – then my feelings as a director is to make each board as equal as the other. As time delay is more important in the end game and more so if the clock for a G/60 is set at G/55 (t/d 5) needing to make sixty moves before making their clock be equal with time to a clock set at G/60 (t/d 0). If after making sixty moves, they will gain more time then a clock set at G/60, then again with a clock set always at time delay gives up all rights to rule 14H: claim of insufficient losing chances in sudden death.

As the players are only given up their right to 14H: claim of insufficient losing chances in sudden death, only the player that is on the move with two minutes or less on their clock could only make the claim. As the opening or the middle game would never show insufficient losing chances, only the end game would show any claim to make it as a end game. Even if the player has less then two minutes on the clock and only made a few moves on the board, would only show that the player was late to the start of the game, or they have poor time managment skills not the falt of the clock but the falt of the player.

Do know that the director must inform the players of the time delay clocks, if it is equal or time take back is used. Do feel in time or is now the case, that the majority of directors will take back time from a clock then have the time delay then make it be equal to clocks that have no time delay.

Thought with the 5th edition official rule book that there would be a whole section on the issue of time delay with time take back. Thought there would have been cross tables with accepted time delay take back. Even the subject with time delay with two time controls. Wish in the next few years the subject of time delay and time take back could be more firmer. Have supported the idea like FM Fred Lindsay, member of the Tournament Director Certification Committee. That the rules of chess has become more open to debate with the director, with one director having one set of ideas for a tournament when a different director has different ideas on the rules.

Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td

24

Doug, I think your analogy breaks down. The TD in the real world doesn’t decide which games use delay and which don’t. The players do, based on what equipment they provide and whether they choose to use the features. In our weekly G/10 events, in any given round you’ll find some games with G/10 d/0 (with or without digital clocks!) and some with G/8 d/3. No one EVER complains seriously. A few would rather see G/7 d/3 instead of G8, but it’s not a big deal. The TD advises people to use delay so as not to have to deal with the no losing chances rule, and he specifies how much time to take off if you use delay. The rest is up to the players. As a practical matter, as long as some people are using analog clocks there will ALWAYS be some games not using delay. It shouldn’t be a federal case. In blitz, the need to specify what time to take off if delay is used is critical, and the preferences of the players will become evident. It’s highly unlikely to cause WW3.

25

Mr. Forsythe, please listen to all these gentlemen.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
No one is being harmed or threatened.

There are two options for your blitz tournaments. Either are fine. It may be debatable as to which is preferable, but either are fine. In my opinion, the one that is preferable is the one that the majority of the players in your club like. Not someone else’s club; your club. Just ask them and stick to that one.

And if USCF decides that 3 +2ds = 5, then so what!? You have more or less proven that it isn’t. But if the people in your club want to play that time control, ask if they want it rated as USCF quick or just unrated. USCF has given you and the players that option. IF your club disagrees with USCF, great - more power to you. Just use the time control that your club wants, and respect others who respectfully disagree with you.

The USCF rulebook (42D) states: “A properly set clock with time delay capability is preferable to any other clock in a game with any sudden death time control.” This is very clear. I think you would be permitted to ban any time delays in your tournament if you so wished, as long as you announced it in all pre-tournament publicity. However that may be, I doubt many would want to come; but if I’m wrong, great - may everyone in your club enjoy your non-time-delay tournament.

As a tournament director for your club (and to a larger extent your state), you have agreed to serve their needs to some extent. I’m sure the players there are extremely grateful for your hours of dedicated hard work. However, if you are doing something that Mr. Forsythe wants (even if Mr. Forsythe is the only person who is right, and everyone else is wrong), and hosting tournaments with unpopular optional rules or time controls that no one particularly favors, then your contribution to chess is small and perhaps counter-productive. If, after listening to all your players’ needs and requests, you decide that the USCF cannot meet your club’s standards, then make the appropriate ADMs, or go further. However, I would be very hard pressed to believe that this is the case. Just about any variation on the rules of the tournament is acceptable, as long as it is in all pre-publicity. Rule 1B2: “Major variations: A variation sufficiently major so that it might reasonable be expected to deter some players from entering should be mentioned in any Chess Life announcement and posted and/or announced at the tournament.”

So in conclusion, do whatever you feel is right with respect to this matter, if it serves your club’s needs. Listen to the great wisdom of the other people in this room with tons of experience as to what players do tend to enjoy. But assuming you know your club best, do what they want. USCF, I’m sure, will try to work with you to promote chess in the area.

Do not serve the rule, but the players for which the rules were written.

Yours, Ben Bentrup

26

At the club level it is different, have sent in a number of quick events. The club is small at Jackson, we play in a pizza place, during a rated game we eat food and drink whatever soda pop we like, we even talk to each other during a game. With a small group of people that know each other is different, as we are not strangers to each other or if they are new in a little time we become friends.

When talking about time controls with time delay, was talking at a large event of large number of people. There is a lot of difference with a event with three players or a match at the local club to a tournament with fifty plus people with a total prize fund of three-hundred dollars. If club members like to play a event like G/10 or G/9 (t/d 3) or G/8 (t/d 3) or G/7 (t/d 3) or even G/10 (t/d 3), that is fine for a club to have during a event. If as a director with a total of hundreds of dollars as a prize fund, it would cause problems with the players if telling them to set the time delay in any of the five systems.

Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td

27

I don’t think I’d ever run an event when I really have no clue what the prospective players want. It’s too risky! In our area, there is almost no interest in rated blitz. We have quick chess at the club each night, (different time control each night), but there is no incremental cost beyond rating fees, so prizes per entries works fine. If you’re talking about a more serious event where you need to draw around 50 players, I’d recommend some market research first. Whatever you come up with, publish the time control and delay decision up front and stick with it. And reconcile yourself to the fact that some games will be played without delay unless you’re planning to supply digital clocks. Good luck!

28

michess.org/mca_pages/law_speedchess.shtml

The above link is the rules for the Michigan Chess Association Michigan Speed Rules.

Michigan has a association that has come up with the general rules of play in the state; they are a little different then the USCF offical rules of chess. As having to have a large or a small event must use the website and the Michigan Chess Association publish the Michigan Chess if wanting to have the information published. Could if want reject the rules of the Michigan Chess Association as it is not a Michigan Chess Association event; as a director use the website and the information be published in Michigan Chess, then the players that are almost always from the state of Michigan expect the rules of the Michigan Chess Assocation be used.

As the rules do not use any information with time delay, then there is even conflict with the Michigan Chess Assocation and the United States Chess Federation would have to use the Michigan Chess Assocation rules as the players are more inclined to these rules.

As different assocations and the United States Chess Federation has different ideas with blitz chess, with the new mix with time delay in a blitz game only makes something that was complex into something that cannot happen in a large context unless the players have detail understand of the rules. Some people say that the information must be told before the start of the event is fine, even telling the time controls and the amount of the rounds do have players still as before the start of the event what is the time control.

Blitz is only going to be used at the club level, as the players of the event will find the rules they like. Having a large blitz event when the players are strangers or have little understanding will only make having a blitz even with a large number of people more complex.

Even if there was a blitz event most are round robin or more common a double round robin. If this is the case the players will set up just the boards they need to have the event, with half of the players set up board and set. After finnishing with the player, the owner of the clock will find the next person to play, as half of the players have set up clock and board sooner or later the owner of the board and clock will let someone else use there set and clock, when they play on a different board and clock. If you first set up the clock with time delay, then go to a different board and see the clock without time delay: as a player would you change the clock time to make yourself happy or find that the clock cannot be used with time delay: do you run back to your board and grab your clock and find someone has the clock in use. Or the idea you come to a board and set and find that the clock is set at time delay: do you go and change the time on the clock, or just play on with the time delay.

If you can say that as the director or the President of the club going off and spending the money to have twenty chronos clocks, then twenty sets and boards. It would be nice if that could happen, like most clubs they do not have $5,000 joust for equipment.

Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td

29

I found the following on a website about silly laws in your state of Michigan (by the way, I’m not knocking Michigan, I’m sure Tennessess is crazier).

In Clawson, Mich., there is a law that makes it LEGAL for a farmer to sleep with his pigs, cows, horses, goats, and chickens.
In Detroit, couples are banned from making love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.
In Michigan, a woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.

I’m sure these laws get violated all the time. I’m sure no one could give a darn. Why doesn’t the legislature in Michigan do something against this public outrage? Who cares - people know how to adjust.

If your state’s chess organization has antiquated norms, you can either do one of two things: work on updating them through the proper mechanisms or ignore them and continue on with life as sensible human beings. I’m fairly sure no one will give a darn what official rules you break (as long as most everyone agrees it makes sense to do so), and that the world or even your state chess organization will not blow up if you choose to break them. And even if it does, it sounds like you’ve encouraged healthy discussion.

Here’s hoping I’m not too out of line here! :wink:
Ben Bentrup

30

If the federation, the state associations, and each chess club have different ideas on the rules and even now the time controls for a blitz game – how can a director dream of having a blitz event with a number of people that have different views of blitz. For most directors, the hard part of a tournament is finding the tournament hall and making sure the prize fund can be paid, as most directors during the tournament only have to think of the problems of parings, and the prize fund after the event. Most events never have a problem that needs the director to run down to make the final judgement, if it is blitz with different rules and now with different views of time controls what director would want to jump into different views of blitz when the rules are not settled.

Having the players deal with the idea of G/3 (t/d 2), G/4 (t/d 2), G/5 (t/d 2) or G/5, why would a director want to deal with this problem when the director is only looking to break even with the event; would not a director be more happy to deal with a G/10 or G/7 (t/d 3) event without thinking of the different views of blitz. Wish that blitz could be more common, there could be a reason directors do not have many blitz events in the TLA.

Earnest,
Douglas M. Forsythe, local td