I recently rejoined USCF (I was last a member about 25 years ago), and have been playing some tournaments at my local chess club.
For scoring, I recently bought the iPhone app “Chess Scoresheet”, which I find very useful.
MY QUESTION: What are USCF rules on electronic score sheets? I recently read that cell phones are verboten - though I can easily turn my iPhone to “airplane mode” which effectively shits off any cell phone or texting related activities, making it “just a PDA”.
Is this sufficient to be able to use for scoresheet purposes?
I like Chess Scoresheet because after the game I can email the PGN file so I can analyze at home in Deep Shredder.
Only approved electronic scoresheets should be used in tournament play (Monroi and e-notate). However, some TDs allow other electronic scoresheets to be used as long as the opponent has no objections. If the opponent objects then you have to find some other approved method of taking notation (paper scoresheet?). To date there have been no complaints filed with USCF regarding the use of non-approved scoresheet devices being allowed in tournaments.
The purpose of the no cell phone rule is twofold. The obvious one is that ringing phones, and musical ringtones, disrupt tournaments. Worse yet, someone may actually decide to talk on the darned thing in the middle of a game.
However, the other purpose is where you might run into problems. A cell phone, PDA, tablet, or other electronic device that is capable of running a chess scoresheet could also run a chess app that could be used to suggest moves. The approved devices for use as a scoresheet do not have a mode that allows them to analyze games or calculate good moves.
(1) The only electronic scoresheets approved for USCF rated play are the MonRoi, DGT electronic board and eNotate. Certain configuration limitations apply for these. See this link for more information.
(2) You can’t use an iPhone or any other Internet-capable device as an electronic scoresheet. See the Rulebook Updates, page 10 (Rule 20N) for the latest on this.
Have some of the rules and/or application of these rules changed since the date of the previous post?
Is the Ynotation application (For Android platform phones. Link here: ynotate.blogspot.com/ ) now allowed to be used?
Several reasons for asking:
~ At recent World Open several players were using electronic recording that was NOT one of those listed above (they were recording on phones, NOT a PDA). Even when opponents registered verbal complaints these players were allowed to continue their use of the cell phones as recording devices (something I have personally no issue with so long as they don’t disappear into the loo with it during the game~!) What I DO have issue with is the utter confusion the whole thing causes. Between the people that know nothing about electronic devices at all and complain about them repeatedly to the people that want to use some applications but cannot because they have not yet been ‘certified’ to those people using them and as their main visual input to mentally alanlysze games instead of looking at the real board … the whole thing is one big clusterfunk. I even saw one person using an iPad to record moves (very cool for us older people with poor eyesight!)
~ I want to use an electronic recording device (my hands are getting incapable of writing) and there is a very good one available rather inexpensively but I don’t want to have contentious issues upon its use/not use.
Thanks in advance for further clarification if any can be provided.
This is definitely a big issue, and it’s not going away anytime soon.
As Tim said, the rules on electronic scoresheets are unchanged. The real problem for directors trying to figure out what players are using, IMO, lies in the hardware, more than the software. The big advantage of MonRois for floor TDs is that the hardware is easily discernible, even from a distance. It can be harder to watch eNotate users, because eNotate is software. So, it could theoretically be run on any platform that supports it.
That said, players should not have been using cell phones or iPads to keep score. The tournament expressly forbade those devices for use in the playing hall. (This was put in place in the ballroom level from round 1, to ensure FIDE compliance. We started doing this in the mezzanine level a little later, after several complaints.)
I hope someone soon comes up with another device that gains official status for allowable use. The current piece of hardware is far too expensive (to me) for a device that only serves one purpose.
While searching for more info on these things I saw on Google that there is a new patent on a new device (google.com/patents/US20050239553) that looks very interesting and it even has dedicated buttons for move entry! Looks good!
Currently, there is a fantastic application that only costs $0.99 (!! ), puts the phone into airplane mode, and works just fine but is not allowed.
This issue really needs to be addressed at higher levels of the chess bureaucracy and should be handled better because $350 for these devices really creates a hierarchy that should not exist in today’s world of competitive electronics.
It seems rather strange to me that there have been no other entries in this field of officially recognized notation recording devices as the electronic engineering is not so state of the art anymore. To have it be the exclusive property of one company that continues to gouge its customers while proving zero customer support for their toys is not only frustrating but makes one think that improper back rooms deals have been cut to protect that company.
Yes yes, of course when something you don’t like comes along, simply cry “conspiracy!” to get things changed.
It’s an old issue. Do a search for “electronic scoresheet” in the Forums archives and read up on all the various protests / reasons on why it is likely a long time before the Delegates or the certification committee approves an app that runs on a Phone. There is, however, plenty of room for an app that runs on an iTouch (non-phone) or similar device…you just have to convince someone to develop the darn thing (and then people will complain about having to buy a separate device).
Just because an issue is “old” does not make it moot or render it a non-issue.
There were real problems at the World Open this year with far too many mid-game distractions and arguments over this very issue. Some people almost came to physical blows over this issue after many heated discussions with some of the TD’s which were not all on the same page regarding enforcing the rules.
The USCF is great at creating grey areas of hostile and arrogant neutrality.
Except that it’s not a grey area. The rules have been established for a number of years. Issues at the World Open come from TDs who don’t do their job knowing/enforcing rules or belligerent players who refuse to listen. Those are problems generated by individuals, not organizational structure.
For the regular class section Joe it’s MonRoi or eNotate. The The United States Chess Federation link is no longer available, so I can’t confirm DGT.
I never said or implied it’s a non-issue. I implied (and state here very clearly) that you need to read up on some background so you can make an informed complaint instead of crying conspiracy.
DGT e-boards are not considered electronic scoresheets. There is no need for certification for them because the end user is not using it instead of a paper scoresheet.
I found the PDF on my other laptop. DGT is approved and considered an electronic scoresheet. If it’s interfaced w/ a computer then the computer should be under control of a TD or supervisor (not the player).
I’ve asked the committee before whether the DGT board absolves players from notation and I’ve been told no. I’ll send an email to the rules committee asking this again.
This is the interpretation I’ve been aware of since DGT boards came into use. I must say, though, that the lack of clarity on this does seem to make Mr. DeCredico’s earlier point about USCF and its gray areas. What I tell people who ask is that they can use a DGT board, but they’ll still need to keep separate notation. It would be nice if the rules were a bit clearer.
The good news is that the expense (around $618, based on today’s exchange rate) and unwieldy nature of a DGT e-board and set essentially render it unusable for individual players. I have yet to encounter a player who has tried to use a DGT board in lieu of paper or other electronic scoresheet.
(Side note: I got to deal with CCA’s DGT setups throughout the Philadelphia International and the World Open. I spent almost as much time re-gluing felt bottoms and scraping excess glue/varnish from the board and pieces as I did setting up or tearing down the boards each night. I don’t mean to speak for Jon Haskel, who did his usual excellent job handling the MonRoi transmission and demo board projector, but I don’t think either of us was terribly impressed. After that experience, I probably wouldn’t recommend the DGT board to anyone.)
I would think that if someone could develop iOS, Android, WinPho software that would “report” (email/beam) the scoresheet AND a list of all programs running during the period that the scoresheet was used, wouldn’t that simplify verification (and produce some functions similar to Monroi that would simplify entering scoresheet information into a central database) irrespective of whether it was actually successful at shutting out other running programs.
It has already been developed and is available for only $0.99 as a Google/Android application. The USCF does not recognize it as ‘official’ even though it completely locks out the phone until the game has been finished and finalized. I think the problem is that it would cause TD’s to do too much work to vet every possible device on which it can run. Someone at the Middle American tournament (St Louis this year) was using it until their opponent complained and they were told it was not allowed.
If the USCF really wanted to solve the problem they would encourage proprietary development (or do it inhouse!) of a handheld device that costs far less than $350.00. They are out there and people willing to do it. Conspiracy or not, Monroi has a bizarre stranglehold on this niche market.
“Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status.” ~ Laurence J. Peter
to record moves (very cool for us older people with poor eyesight!)
Chess tournament of the future:
