Is 30/30 legal? (NON-SD)

Running Chess Tournaments
1

The scintillating discussion on clock rules and allowable time controls rekindled an idea I had when I got back into directing, a few years ago.

Like Hal Terrie, I give serious thought to trying a non-SD tournament, just to see how it goes. In my case, at least the first one would be a club event, no TLA, token prizes and EF…just to see how players react. For the sake of perversity, note that I lobbied for one of the two clubs I attend to switch its secondary control (after 40/90 primary) to SD/60; it had been 30/60, then 40/60, since the days before dirt.

I still think a SD ultimate control makes sense for a club that holds rated events almost every week on a weeknight, where most of the guys must get up for work the next morning.

As a change of pace: The upsides to no SD, no ILC, no arguing over delay or deduction for delay or clock preference or how to set clocks or much of what gets discussed on this forum calls out to me. I enjoyed playing tournament chess in 1985. (It’s good to be young; for the most part.)

My question: What is the fastest allowable non-SD time control? I played a few 30/30 events in the '80s, before SD was approved; I recall players who started before I did debating whether 30/30 games were too fast to be rated.

My old-time tourney would not be that fast in any case. There was good reason some folks felt 30/30 was too fast to be rated; I think 40/60 to 40/80 would be the way to go, if such an event ever happens—but is it at least legal to run a 30/30 tournament these days?

You would think that if G/30 is legal, then 30/30 would have to be allowed, also. However, see: is.gd/Vh5XQ7

The Allowable Time Controls document linked above was pulled from the USCF site a while back, due to its outdated statement that G/5 could be played as G/3, inc-2, as I recall. I found it via online search. As far as I know the regs regarding non-SD allowable controls have not been changed in many years—almost certainly not since this doc was published—which could not have been ‘that’ long ago, since it mentions G/5 as Quick-ratable.

Is it true that 30/30 is not Regular-ratable, but G/30 is?

Gotta love it…

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The document was pulled because it contained several very out-of-date statements. For example, it did not cover the rule that increment or delay of 16 seconds or greater is regular rated only regardless of the base time control. (Note: this is no longer true as of January 1, 2012.)

It is not true that 30/30 is not regular-rated either now or as of January 1, 2012. I’m not sure how it would be treated as of January 1, 2012. However, the fact that a 60 move game would allow 60 minutes for each player should ensure it is regular rated. I can’t tell whether it would be dual rated, however.

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I have received clarification through a private message that 30/30 would be regular rated only. The quick rating system does not apply to games that do not have a sudden death time control. If there is no sudden death time control, the time allowed for each player for the entire game is (in theory) unlimited.

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I wouldn’t doubt it, considering all the other logical contradictions that appear in these time-control rules. It’s time for somebody with a completely logical mind to rewrite these things, with the new (beginning 2012) regulations in mind.

Now, let me throw in a completely unrelated monkey wrench. (I love doing that.) :smiling_imp: It is my firm belief that, even if the time control contains no sudden death, a delay or increment should still be used. (I’m not saying that USCF should require this, only that organizers ought to do it.) Otherwise, when the end of the first control is approaching, a player may have just a couple of seconds remaining, with no delay or increment, to play ten moves or so. This would create a clock-smash contest worthy of the bad old days of SD without delay. Player behavior would deterioriate, such as using two hands, knocking over pieces and not replacing them, etc etc etc.

Organizers of non-SD events: To keep the look and feel of your tournaments consistent with modern standards, please use a delay or increment despite the lack of SD.

Bill Smythe

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So, for example, 30/30, then 30/5, 30/5 etc indefinitely (30 moves every 5 minutes) would be regular only, while 30/30, SD/30 would be dual-rated? Even though the latter would, in practice, be much slower?

Bill Smythe

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That’s what I have been led to believe. Don’t ask me to cite a reference for the “no sudden death time control means regular rated only” statement, however; I can’t find one.

Edit: My private message correspondent has pointed out that the text of ADM 11-36 (which established the new rules defining quick, dual, and regular rated) states that a game is regular rated only if the total time for each player in minutes plus the delay or increment in seconds (if any) is greater than 65. In the absence of a sudden death time control, the time for each player is (theoretically) unlimited. So, this is the written reference for “no sudden death time control means regular rated only.”

I am going to stop now before I make an even bigger mess of this. :blush:

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You explained it pretty well, I think. What makes me scratch my head is that there was ever a time when G/30 was ratable and 30/30 was not. That is spelled out clearly in the allowable time controls doc linked to my previous message.

Can be a strange world, at times.

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Honestly, I believe the document you posted is seriously out of date. I fully understand that you retrieved the document from the USCF web site. However, I think the requirement that a non-sudden death time control must provide at least 1.5 minutes/move on average to be ratable is “ancient history.”

I would not put much stock in that document. It is unfortunate that it positions itself as an official “allowable time controls” document but is inaccurate. It is good that the document has been removed from the web site.

System Administrator’s note: That document was removed from the USCF website in October of 2010. The best place to look for current and accurate time control information is in the update to the rules document. The current version of this document is at uschess.org/docs/gov/reports … hanges.pdf

An updated version with the rules changes that take effect in 2012 should be available in the next few weeks.