I’m considering having a “throwback” event at our local chess club with the once-venerable time control of 30/30 G/30. If I’m reading the USCF time control regulations correctly, however, 30/30 G/30 would only be ratable as a quick event as it does not meet the 40 moves in 60 minutes criteria for standard events with a moves/minutes first time control. Yet G/30, which seems like a faster time control to me than 30/30 G/30, is standard ratable (i.e. dual rated). Am I mistaken or misinterpreting the time control regulations?
I don’t understand the reference to “40 moves in 60 minutes criteria for standard events.” In any case, 30/30 SD/30 is dual rated, since the total time is 60 minutes. (That assumes you are using the standard delay of 5 seconds per move starting with the first move. If you are using a delay or increment of more than 15 seconds, then the game is regular rated only.)
I would very strongly recommend downloading the rule book changes from the USCF web site (uschess.org, then on the left, click “About USCF”, then “Governance”, then “Reports”). The TD Tip that has been added to rule 5C covers this exact case.
A time control of “30/30, G/30” is poorly specified, because the ‘G’ should really be ‘SD’, as it is the 2nd time control, so it isn’t really ‘Game’, because 30 moves have already been played.
Game/xx time controls should really be used only when there is only ONE time control period, e.g., one that applies to the entire game.
So what you really mean is “30/30, SD/30”.
That said, we look at the TOTAL TIME given each player. In this case, that is 60 minutes per player. Under the current time control rules this event would be dual rated, because all events where there are between 30 and 60 minutes per player are dual rated. (This assumes that there are 15 or less seconds of delay or increment being used, of course.)
15 years ago “30/30, SD/30” used to be a common time control, now I’m not sure if it is used much. I just looked through the TLA tracking system (which goes back at least 3 years) and I cannot find ANY TLAs for events that used this time control.
FWIW, “15/15, 15/15, 15/15, SD/15” would also be a total of 60 minutes per player and thus dual rated, though I don’t know that anyone would want to play in such an event, and I sure wouldn’t want to direct it!
Thanks for the clarification and the advice. The intent is to use this time control for a “throwback” event, as I agree with nolan that this time control’s not really used anymore.
As we were saying: As of last report from the Allowable Time Controls doc, any non-SD control must provide at least 1.5 minutes per move, per player. That one has changed several times over the years…
A quick glance at the Web site did not reveal a link to the Allowable Time Controls doc. I have missed links on the site before, though. The 40/60 aka 1.5 minute per move standard for non-SD controls took me by surprise the last time I checked the Allowable Time Controls info.
We used to see 30/30 forever, in the 1980s after 30/30 was approved and before SD gained approval. A TD in NJ used to run 15/20 forever as a secondary, tertiary and so on control for his tornado events.
Now we have G/30 as Dual/Regular-rated, but 45/60, SD/60 would not be Regular-ratable, if I read the regs correctly. I wonder how the TD/A software would handle it if someone entered that as a time control?
Ken,
I don’t mean to pick on you, as I enjoy your well-informed, clearly reasoned posts here, but the fact that an NTD does not “understand the reference to ‘40 moves in 60 minutes’ criteria for standard events” points out how much we need to revise time control regs.
This is from the Allowable Time Controls doc. (I found it in another thread. As far as I can tell it’s not on the USCF site, at least not without digging.)
Official USCF Time Control Regulations
The following are official regulations for USCF-rated tournaments. These regulations are a supplement to the USCF’s Official Rules of Chess, and the rule numbers quoted below reference this rule book.
Regular Rating System – The duration of the first time control must be at least 30 minutes for each player. The first period may be sudden death. If a non-sudden-death control is used, the rate of play must be equal to or slower than an average of 40 moves per hour. Suitable minimum controls would be 20/30 or 40/60.
I believe that is obsolete, having been replaced by the information which is in the update to the current rulebook., uschess.org/docs/gov/reports … hanges.pdf
I’m not sure if the requirement for 30 minutes for the first time control for a regular rated event is still in effect (though I think it should be), since it is not listed in the document cited above.
I think that the ‘allowable time control’ document’ has been pulled while that document is updated. (I know I recommended it be pulled.)
That document was not pulled as of the day when I initially started this thread, as the Allowable Time Controls document is what I had reviewed before posing the question on 30/30 SD 30.
OK, I was trying to be very polite and couch my comment in “I don’t understand” language. I think perhaps I was too subtle.
This “allowable time controls” document must be out of date. There is no requirement that the rate of play in a non-sudden-death control must be equal to or slower than an average of 40 moves per hour, or 1.5 minutes per move. None. A time control of 45/60 SD/60 would absolutely be regular rated only.
Again, I strongly recommend referring to the updates to the 5th edition of the Official Rules of Chess. The wording might be a little confusing, but here’s the easiest way I can describe determining the rating system for a given time control.
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If the time control involves a delay or increment strictly greater than 15 seconds, the game is regular rated only.
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Otherwise, add the time for all the time controls.
2a. If the total is strictly less than 30 minutes, the game is quick rated only.
2b. If the total is strictly greater than 60 minutes, the game is regular rated only.
2c. Otherwise, the total is between 30 and 60 minutes inclusive, and the game is dual rated.
Note that the time allowed in the primary or only time control must be at least five (5) minutes.
The ‘allowable time controls’ document has been pulled from the Forms area of the website, and I have reminded the publications department and the Rules committee chair that it still needs to be updated.
Update: Daniel Lucas tells me that a revised version of this document is being prepared and should be available soon.
OK, so an organizer who decided to run (for example) G/20 could arrange to have it regular-rated only (by using a delay or increment of 16 seconds or more) or quick-rated only (by using a delay or increment of 15 seconds or less) but there is no way to arrange to have it dual-rated. Hmm.
While updating it, why not also revise it, to eliminate various Stupid Discontinuities such as the one above?
Bill Smythe
Uh huh … I want to be at the Delegates Meeting where you get that done. 
Bill, the purpose of the revision is to bring it up to date with the CURRENT time control rules. The document I pulled was out of date and did not reflect the current rules.
The Delegates are in charge of changing the acceptable time control rules, not the publications department or even the rules committee.
I suspect the issue of acceptable time controls will come up in Florida in 2011, at a minimum in the context of how (or whether) to permit dual rated G/30+5d events where delay-capable clocks are set to 25 minutes.
That’s fine – certainly the posted rules should be brought up to date with the current rules – but I think the current rules need a lot of work, too, so let’s proceed on both fronts.
Sure, but I suspect the rules committee and/or ratings committee could come up with some decent suggestions, and present them to the delegates for approval.
Bill Smythe
I don’t think the ratings committee wants to have to deal with time control rules. They’ve got their hands full already.
As I understand it, the rules committee is talking about something to take care of the G/30+5 (G/25 clock setting) issue in Florida, but I think they’re trying to deal with just that one issue at the moment.
Well, G/25 d/5 is an important issue, so I’m glad they’re at least dealing with that.
But please do it right, guys:
(a) G/25 d/5 should be regular-ratable, as long as the d/5 is explicitly announced in pre-event publicity.
(b) If the announced control is G/25 d/5, the organizer should be permitted (though perhaps not required) to decree that games played with analog clocks will be played at G/25 (and still be regular-rated).
(c) The organizer should not be required to insist that all games be played with delay-capable clocks. (He may so insist, or he may instead simply invoke (b) above.)
Any plan that isn’t pretty close to the above would, in my view, miss the mark badly.
Bill Smythe
Whew…G/25 d/5…what a crappy time control for regular rated games. Proposal: anything printed as G/29 or less, reglardless of delay or increment, is Quick rated only. Forget the theoretical math of subtracting time for delay–it’s stupid.
Reactionary and hardline? Perhaps.
As an organizer, the time control is great to fit games into a tight timeframe. As a director, I get the theoretical math – theoretical, because it’s rare that any G/25 d/5 game goes 60 moves. As a player, I’ve played in two G/25 d/5 tournaments in the past three months.
Observation? This is the worst regular-rateable time control in history. I directed a G/25 d/5 event this weekend; Denver had not had an event like this for a while.
Experiences of others? (Paraphrases)
International Master: “I don’t know, I didn’t have any time to calculate anything so I just made a move that looked OK. Otherwise I think about it and suddenly I’m down to 10 minutes.”
Expert: “I’m surprised at how it’s five moves in and I only have 15 minutes left.”
Let’s make it even easier: G/29 or less is Quick regardless of delay or increment. G/30 thru G/60 is Dual rated (unless delay or inc is 15s or greater, making it Regular only). G/61 and above is Regular rated regardless of delay or increment.
IMHO, that will be the feeling among most of the Delegates when they consider this topic.
I believe that the counterargument will come from two places. The first was advanced by Bill Goichberg this year as a reason (not the only one) to keep the optional deduction of time for using delay alive. He said that there is a very popular event going on right now regularly that would force some players to miss their trains if four rounds were held at GAME/30 d/5, and it would show a marked decrease in popularity if it were only quick ratable.
The second was mentioned by some scholastic directors/organizers who want to get the players out as quickly as possible (largely because it is before the sites close or charge more) and also want to keep their tournaments regular ratable.
I believe that I’ve been fair stating those positions above, even though I strongly disagree with them.
Alex Relyea