Events with time controls G/30 to G/60 are eligible for dual rating (quick and regular). Is this mandatory for these time controls or can the organizer/TD decide for instance to have a G/60 event rated as regular only if he so desires? I am asking since the online system apparently objects to this …
/Jens
I think it’s forced, I can’t remember where I read that, but G/30 to G/60 is dual rated and you can’t have it one way or another.
Just a few years ago, if you sent in your tournament with paper, the organizer/director could pick to have it dual rated or classical rated only. Mike Nolan knows the committee that demanded to have all G/30 to G/60 dual rated.
My question is this, why you want the G/60 classical rated only?
The Delegate motion establishing dual rating of events with time controls from Game/30 through Game/60 did NOT exclude those that were being submitted on paper, that was an ‘interpretation’ made by the USCF Executive Director due to limitations of the rating system software in use at the time. Since the office had to enter those events twice, the office would only dual rate events submitted on paper if the rating fee was paid twice.
The new ratings system software does not require that events submitted on paper be entered twice, so the original intent of the Delegates, that ALL events with time controls of Game/30 through Game/60 be dual rated, has finally been implemented.
If you don’t want your event to be dual rated, don’t have the games at a sudden death primary time control of Game/30 through Game/60.
so if its NOT g/60 but per se 20/30 SD 30 it would not be dual rated?
Think the answer would be dual rated.
Never have placed a two time control event into the set up of the time control. If you have a 30/60 SD 30, think the program wants it at ‘game 90’. Only way to find out is run a few tests, if it comes back as an error … would have to convert it into one time control.
That’s how I understand it. As far as I know, events with two time controls must be regular rated. Perhaps Mike can verify this.
Alex Relyea
Rtg Sys: R
K Factor: F
Time Ctrl: 20/30 SD/30
It did pass validation with regular rating, with 20/30 SD/30.
Rounds: 4
Event: S
Sec Type: N
Rtg Sys: R
K Factor: F
Time Ctrl: 30/60 SD/30
It did pass validation with two time controls.
Rounds: 4
Event: S
Sec Type: N
Rtg Sys: Q
K Factor: F
Time Ctrl: 10/10 SD/10
**Error: Quick/Dual Time Control not GAME/nn
If you have it in quick, you will get an error with two time controls.
Rounds: 4
Event: S
Sec Type: N
Rtg Sys: D
K Factor: F
Time Ctrl: 15/30 SD/15
**Error: Quick/Dual Time Control not GAME/nn
If you have it dual, you will get an error with two time controls.
Can understand quick you should get an error, as quick does not ask for a scoresheet. Without a scoresheet you cannot prove you made the first time control. With dual, G/30 to G/60, it is not the norm to have two time controls with a game that will be under an hour.
You can prove who made a time control with a digital clock
How much more clearly can I say this:
DUAL RATING APPLIES ONLY TO EVENTS WITH A SUDDEN DEATH PRIMARY TIME CONTROL OF GAME/30 THROUGH GAME/60.
Events that do not have a primary time control that is sudden death CANNOT BE QUICK RATED, therefore they cannot be dual rated, either.
Here’s a table of what can be rated under which systems:
Game/5 through Game/29: Quick-rated ONLY
Game/30 through Game/60: MUST BE dual rated
Slower than Game/60 or primary time control NOT sudden death: Regular rated ONLY.
Since in a regular rated event, each time control period must be at least 30 minutes long, the fastest regular-only time control permitted under current regulations (dating back to around 1988 as I recall) is 30/30, SD/30.
Organizers and TDs are required to abide by these regulations and not try to find ways around them.
Mike:
Just pointing out a error in the program. If the director makes and error, with two time controls within sixty minutes. Directors do make errors, the program does not show the error.
Thats true thunderchicken. Not all chessplayers have a digital clock, so the director would need to bring digital clocks. You just had that scholastic tournament with 175 players, did you have 87 digital clocks with a move counter?
Just check the cost of 87 Chronos II, with ground UPS shipment, the final cost would be $7,017.32 (wholesalechess.com). You got to love move counters for quick events. So you have any plans for a two time control quick event?
TDs and organizers are expected to KNOW THE RULES about which time controls are ratable under which rating systems.
While the validation process does attempt to parse the time control field to look for sudden death primary time controls to help ensure that they are quick or dual rated as appropriate, TDs are still expected to know and conform to the rules.
It is not practical to try to check all possible values in the time control field to ascertain that the TD is submitting an event in conformance with the rules.
Blatant attempts to circumvent the USCF rating system will result in sanctions, such as (but not limited to) the termination of a TD’s or affiliate’s ability to submit events online.
Why, yes, I do have 87 Chronos II clocks.
Being one of the directors that have sent online tournaments. There are a few times I have made a human error with the time control field. Have with human error placed in dual G/30 - G/60, when I should have used quick. The use of the validation, came back as an error.
Do not have the time or want to run test validations, just to find all the errors of the time control field. Just with a small batch, have pointed out one error that got past validation. At this time, never been to or going to have a tournament with two time controls, with a game that is sixty minutes or less. Never know of any director, that has ever had a tournament like that.
30/30, SD/30 is the fastest non sudden-death time control that can be rated under the regular rating system.
Anything faster than that is not ratable, so it isn’t suprising you haven’t seen any events like that.
I don’t consider not flagging as an error a time control that is NOT PERMITTED under the rating system a programming error, because TDs should know NOT TO SUBMIT SUCH AN EVENT.
Why do you waste our time with this drivel?
I’d be much more inclined to play G/30 to G/60 events if they were quick-rated only and not Dual-rated. I’m so much worse at the fast time controls, that I hate the thought of losing those rating points.
What was the original purpose of dual-rating? Was it an attempt to get the quick-rating more established and accepted? Has it (the policy of requiring such events be dual-rated) outlived its usefullness? How would one go about asking that the policy be changed?
As of (02/05/2006) today, have (myself checked my record) sent 103 online events. There have been a few times, I have made a human error with the time control field. The validation has pointed it out as an error, it was not done to get around the rating.
Why do you not support the validation of the online events? If the director has any errors, as you like to say (quote “because TDs should know NOT TO SUBMIT SUCH AN EVENT. - Mike Nolan”) under cuts the need to have any validation of the online event. The validation is to cut down on the human errors, if as you say the director should know better – than you do not need the validation period. Error is to be human Mike.
At the time only G/10 to G/29 was quick rated. Directors that have quick events, have G/10, G/15 or G/29 as the norm. Most G/10 or G/15, have been for the members of the chess club. If you have a G/10, the total time would be twenty minutes. You could get three rounds in an hour. As most chess clubs have around three to five hours with a meeting. With a quick event, the director can get a full swiss tournament in within a single club meeting.
The G/29, that takes a full day. As it is very much like a G/30, only to get the stronger players to play the weaker players. As the stronger players are not risking their classical rating, only their quick rating. Finding having G/29 than Game 30, only has a smaller field.
Going to dual rating, was a way to get more players have a quick rating. As directors were having G/30 to G/60 events as the norm. Before they changed the quick to G/60, a number of states did not have many of there players have quick ratings. Some states only have a small number of active directors in a given year. If the directors in that state are not willing to have quick only events, the members of that state cannot get a quick rating unless they play outside the state.
That can be the reason why the USCF is not going to have rated blitz events. If the state only has a small number of directors, and they are not willing to have blitz tournaments, the members of that state will not have any blitz ratings.