I’m still noticing that some G/30 tournaments are not being automatically dual rated. I thought all tournaments with a time control of G/30-G/60 were meant to be dual rated since we went to using the online rating process, whether or not the TD specifically requests it.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris:
If the director sends in the tournament report on paper, the director would need to double the rating fee. Dual paper tournament reports are 80 cents per-game. If the director does not want dual paper tournament reports, the tournament would be 40 cents per-game.
I don’t think that any tournaments are automatically rated in any way. There is a selection that has to be made when you submit the reports. Perhaps Mike can tell us if the ratings software would flag the tournament sent in under the inappropriate (ie non-dual) rating system. Perhaps a rerate should be done on those tournaments?
Alex Relyea
If there are G/30 through G/60 events that are not being dual-rated, that’s probably because of an error by someone.
Whether the event is submitted online, on diskette or on paper is irrelevant as far as dual-rating an event under the new ratings system is concerned, and there is no longer an extra fee for dual-rating events submitted on paper.
According to the Ratings Committee, there was never supposed to be an extra fee at all, the RC recommendation and the Delegate motion both called for dual rating of all games played at G/30 through G/60, the extra fee was an office ‘refinement’ due to the fact that they had to enter the data twice under the old programming.
However, if some rounds are at different time controls, the SLOWEST time control used for any round determines whether it is quick, dual or regular rated. Thus an event with rounds 1-2 at G/45 and rounds 3-4 at G/75 would be regular rated only.
Give me event IDs and I can check on them, otherwise they’re just rumors at this point. (However, the USCF does not correct events unless the TD reports or confirms the correction.)
There will be a rerate ahead of the August Supplement, probably around July 8th-9th. (I haven’t discussed timing for the August Supplement with the editorial department yet, the June supplement didn’t get out until the 2nd week in June DESPITE our scheduling that rerate for May 6th.)
To the extent possible, we parse the new ‘time control’ field and if it looks like a primary sudden death time control of G/30 through G/60 but isn’t coded as dual-rated we flag that as an error.
However, that field isn’t on the diskette/upload files yet, so it has to be filled in and the rating system choice (quick/dual/regular) selected when uploading or editing the event. That’s true whether it is the TD doing the uploading or the USCF office staff.
If the TD doesn’t report the time control on an event mailed to the USCF, the staff tries to figure it out. Is that preferable to holding the event until we get a response from the TD? (Before answering, consider if your answer would change if it was YOUR event being held up!)
BTW, events that are uploaded through the TD/Affiliate Support area ARE automatically rated as soon as they pass validation and the ratings fee is paid via credit card.
Since the new ratings programming went live (on Valentine’s Day), 175 events have been rated the same day they ended, including 5 events that had over 100 players in them.
Here are some of the event IDs in question:
200506075471, 200505313861, 200505242541, 200505170751… all events run by affiliate A6015523, which are all titled Rainbow Chess 30/30 (or some other form of G/30 title).
This affiliate runs a tournament once a week and all the games are played at G/30, but I only see a handful of these tournaments have been dual rated.
Thanks,
Chris
I looked up the first of those events, the time control is specified as 30/30.
30/30 is NOT a primary sudden death time control, so those games are not dual-ratable.
It means 30 moves in 30 minutes, then the next 30 moves in another 30 minutes, and so on.
At one time that was the fastest play the USCF would rate.
Whether that’s actually the time control that was used or not I cannot tell, but that’s what the event is titled and that’s how the time control field was specified, so unless you have reason to believe the TD intentionally mis-stated the time control, I see nothing to change here.
Does this mean when re-ratings are done to put tournaments in order that a tournament that was previously rated with just the regular rating system because it was submitted on paper could be re-rated as dual-rated?
The fact that REBEL G/30 (200501182161) appears to be G/30 and also is dual rated adds credence to Mike’s theory that the 30-30 tournaments really are not sudden death/30.
When I was in high school we played 30/30, 30/GAME.
Alex Relyea
That’s possible for events that are within the rerating window (which at this point is still events ending on or after 1/1/2004), but someone would have to do the research to figure out which events weren’t dual-rated.
The problem is that under the old rating programming, they almost always assigned different event IDs to the event, one ID for the regular-rated sections, a different ID for the quick-rated sections. Finding events that should have been dual-rated (we don’t have the time control from those games) and then figuring out which of those weren’t dual-rated in the first place is a lot of work.
If a TD wanted to research his or her events from 2004 and 2005 and give the USCF a list of those events that were definitely not dual-rated but should have been, it wouldn’t be that hard to change them over. (The dual rating would occur at the next rerate.) But that list better be both accurate and complete!
I can absolutely guarantee that these tournament are not 30/30 but are indeed G/30. Apart from the fact that I know most of the people who attend these tournaments, and have indeed played in them myself, they are played on a Tuesday night and they play 3 rounds. If your time control of 30/30 was right then theoretically each game could last well over two hours each if the players played say 60 moves. That means the tournament could go on for over 6 hours, pretty unusual for an evening tournament.
Here is the advertisement for this tournament from the Nevada Chess website:
Rainbow Chess
Carl’s Jr. Restaurant
Tropicana & Rainbow
Tuesdays, 6:00 pm - 9:00 pm
USCF rated, Game/30, $2 entry
Contact: Gordon Barrett, (702) 255-3556
Hope this clarifies the matter.
Regards,
Chris
Unfortunately, what it does is raise questions I can’t answer.
This brings up a sticky question. Should (or can) a tournament played at 30/30, then SD/30, be dual-rated?
On the one hand, the total time control is game/60 or faster, so the answer would seem to be Yes.
On the other hand, the rules for quick chess make no provision for more than a single, sudden-death control. So maybe the answer is No. (On the third hand, the quick rules make no provision for anything slower than game/29, either, but that’s not stopping anybody.)
Of course, 30/30 indefinitely (no sudden death) is another horse entirely, as would be 30/30, then 30/30, then SD/30.
Bill Smythe
I don’t see it as a problem at all. The USCF’s time control definitions have been rather carefully laid out.
Quick rating applies only to games played at a primary sudden death time control of Game/5 through Game/60.
Dual rating applies only to games played at a primary sudden death time control of Game/30 through Game/60.
30/30, SD/30 is not a primary sudden death time control, so it cannot be quick rated or dual rated.
That seems in accordance with the letter of the rule, but common sense says 30/30, SD/30 ought to be dual-rateable since the total time is 60 minutes.
USCF’s time control definitions may have been laid out with care, but perhaps not with logic.
Bill Smythe
I do not consider quick chess being restricted to sudden death primary time controls to be illogical.
You may want to debate the value of quick rating ANY games slower than Game/29, but I also don’t consider as unreasonable the logic of doing that by extending the range of sudden death primary time controls that are quick ratable.
Interestingly enough it may be something of a moot issue.
Looking through the time controls of the 7463 sections that have been rated under the new ratings programming I didn’t see ANY events that had a time control of 30/30, SD/30.
Well, in any case there are more important fish to fry.
Bill Smythe