Throw out those e-note devices. Throw out the myriad of rules and punishments for potential electronic cheaters. The scoresheet problem could be solved. Throw out the under 5 minute not needing to record moves rule.
Let the CHESSBOARD and CLOCK do the work.
Develop a chessboard that is electronic and is sensitive to the weight of the pieces. Electronic clock connected to the board.
Place piece on a given square
Remove fingers from piece
Punch clock
Move now officially recorded electronically.
A scoresheet is printed out when game completed.
PCs are powerful enough these days to run image recognition software that could view a Chessboard and determine the position of the pieces automatically from a camera image. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever actually implemented such a system. When someone does, you could point the camera at the board and let the computer do the rest.
How about it graduate students? Get coding. You can get a master’s degree and help out your Chess community at the same time.
You are spot on, dfan!
Just like they said when the cave floor was replaced by a furskin board replaced by a paper board replaced by a wooden board replaced by a vinal board. It will be done and something else will replace it.
To be precise, we don’t actually know what, if anything, “The Cat In The Hat” used, at least during his first seven games at the 2006 World Open. It seems pretty safe to assume that it had something to do with his fishing hat, which he didn’t get to wear for his last two games. But he was searched twice, and nothing was found on him either time. (I know this, because I was involved in both searches.) After being deprived of his hat, he lost rounds eight and nine in rather sophomoric fashion, after brilliantly downing a GM in round seven. He hasn’t played in a USCF event since - but his World Open results have not been expunged.
Also, he wouldn’t be the first example. I busted a couple of scammers about eight years ago. One (the player) was using a detachable cell phone camera (Motorola made them with their RAZR flip phones when they first came out) to send the position out to the other, who would then text back a reply. I caught them by confiscating the player’s cell phone. He was smart enough to delete his incoming messages, but he forgot to delete his outgoing messages.
Yes, all we have to do is figure out how to have space for 1 $500 pc per board, along with a $100+ Kinect like device, and the probably $150 per machine software in order to replace $0.00001 sheet of paper. Not to mention the space the devices would take at each table and the resulting increase in tournament cost.
Let’s think – redo the USCF website, or do this?
Fundraise to fund the LMA, or do this?
Fundraise to do more chess promotion and increase membership, or do this?
Get the idea? There’s stupid, then there’s really godawful effen stupid. You’ve crossed that line.
I love your posts! You say what you believe. You’re not wishy-washy about any subject. But you’ll never make it as a politician. You just refuse to ride the fencepost. I can respect that. I do.
In regard “effin stupid”, that’s what was first said when the wheel was invented.
You’re talking about a group with highly limited resource. This concept, this discussion is a waste of time and resource with no immediate upside, which is what chess generally needs. Science fiction won’t help USCF.
Kbachler wrote:
“You’re talking about a group with highly limited resource. This concept, this discussion is a waste of time and resource with no immediate upside, which is what chess generally needs. . .”
I can understand frustration. Many have been beating their heads against the chess wall for years from what I have gathered in these Forums.
Well, there is no need to dream or look for anyone to invent such an item. It already exists and performs exactly the things describe above.
It is the DGT Board. I know, because I own one. Actually I own a complete set-up of one.
There is the chess board with sensors built in. There are the wooden pieces, each with a chip to identify it, inside. There is a FIDE and USCF clock, the DGT XL, that connects directly to the board.
All of this can be directly connected to a computer or if powered by itself will keep an internal record of a good number of games that can be downloaded to a computer at a later time.
So, this technology does and has existed for well over 10 years now.
"Well, why hasn’t it been used throughout our country as a replacement for paper and pencil or the eNotate or Monroi?; you ask.
Well, the units do have a substantial cost to them. But they are used in all the higher end tournament in Europe and the U.S. The U.S. Championships, held in St. Louis the last couple of years, has used these boards in every game.
There is one thing, though, and that is the notation of the game still must occur at the board by each player. In these higher tournaments, I have seen everyone using paper and pencil. I have seen some where a Monroi or eNotate was also used, at the same time as the DGT board.
It appears that the authorities of FIDE and USCF have not felt the DGT units to give reliable enough score keeping to drop the other forms of notation.
The DGT has also experienced technological improvements since it first came to be. The latest uses blue-tooth technology. So, I’m sure the accuracy of the device is good.
But, what happens if a piece accidentally gets knocked to a different square and is not actually a move? So you see, errors can happen if these electronics are allowed to go it alone.
Anyway, that doesn’t really matter.
What does matter is that we do have the technology and that is the answer to the question or problem posed at the onset of this thread.
Edit:
Actually, I have just read in another forum and thread where Sevan Muradian says the DGT board can replace other notation methods for the players.
So, dwl1945 it appears that what you have started this thread asking is answered completely with technology that already exists, the DGT board setup.
The DGT board would also have to accurate in counting up the moves. The present formulation of rules tells us that move counters on clocks are not accurate enough. Can we trust the DGT board’s accuracy? How does a player know how many moves he has made if is not recording them?
It records each move and the time for each move. That is part of the output or printout, when it is downloaded from the board.
The clock is connected to the board and the whole setup is connected to a computer either sooner or later.
Yes, the DGT boards are accurate.
This is why I believe another means of notation is used. Since the computer is never at the table with the board and game, it would be impossible for anyone to view the game score or the times.
I played in a high dollar tournament in Bakersfield (CA) in 1975 or 1976 where a very strong player in the crowd was busted for signaling moves to a class player. Someone recognized him hanging out with the spectators and observed him for a while.
One of the downsides of class prizes and/or class sections.
