Is the awarding of a half point bye in the last round ethical?
baconlog.blogspot.com/
blog.chess.com/nocab
There’s a whiff of the lynch mob or the lemming migration about any overlarge concentration of like-thinking individuals, no matter how virtuous their cause.-P. J. O’Rourke
A last round half-point bye can be requested. Generally it has to be requested prior to the player playing even the first game, but some organizers announce different options concerning the tiiming of the request (I have yet to hear of alowing it after half the tournament has been played). Also, it is irrevocable (no realizing that a last round win is needed for a decent prize and then opting to cancel the bye).
I would consider it unusual to give a full point bye to a player who already had a half-point bye requested (not totally unheard of as I can think of some strange circumstances where it could make sense, such as when all of the first round zeros had future byes requested). In the example given it might be interesting to know how late a last-round half-point bye could be requested.
For the last number of years our one day tournaments have operated with
Briefly the argument against the last round bye is that a player doesn’t have to face his or her toughest opponent to possibly win money. Note that this can fall both ways, sometimes the extra halfpoint places you in the money and other times you come up empty.
The argument for is that with everybody being busy the bye and even the last round bye is necessary to accomadate the chess players schedule. Without the bye availability there will be fewer players.
Locally when we discussed this we compromised with some of our tournaments (well now just one - the Greater Peoria Open - a two day 5 round event) not allowing a last round bye.
I argued for no last round byes but I can see why some favor them.
The main reason for a last round 1/2 point bye is to allow out of town players to travel home for work or school the next day. Many of these players simply will not come if a bye is not available. Some in-town players may opt for a bye as well for similar reasons, even if they don’t have a 4-6 hour drive.
Considering that most tournaments are swiss pairings, players who take a bye are gambling that they will be in 1st place or at least tied for 1st going into the last round. Unless you’re the leader, you will need to win your last game in order to win significant money.
Michael Aigner
Ethical? Why wouldn’t it be ethical? As long as everyone has equal rights to take byes, I can’t see an ethical problem.
It might not be a great practical idea sometimes–probably you don’t want to let someone declare for a last-round bye after the next-to-last round–but that’s different from being unethical.
I play at the Marshall in New York. There you have to request byes before round 2 (in the 4-round weekenders). That seems reasonable enough, though requiring last-round byes (or even all byes)–to be declared at registration might be better.
Edgy writes, “Ethical? Why wouldn’t it be ethical? As long as everyone has equal rights to take byes, I can’t see an ethical problem.”
It may not be ethical for the same reason an agreed draw prior to the last round game may not be ethical, Edgy. There has been much discussion concerning what draws have done to chess, as well as many articles written concerning “draw death.”
In any tournament the previous games lead up to the FINAL ROUND, where everything is decided. I have never understood the awarding of a “gift” half point in the last round. Please note that I did not ask if it is ethical to “take” the half point bye, but if it is ethical to “award” the free half point. Also, note that I only asked about the last round. I can understand a player taking a half point bye in the earlier rounds, but not the last round. For example, suppose a player wants to play in a tournament but is tired from working that week and does not wish to play on Friday evening. Suppose that player could also play in the optional souped up first round game on Sat morning, but would rather not play in a game with a faster than normal time limit. Maybe a player would prefer to take a half point bye in the third round Sat night rather than playing late and having to get up early. Many years ago I had to face an older player who took a half point bye in the fourth round. He came in fresh for the last round, while I, after a long and arduous battle, looked, and felt, like I’d been through the wringer! I lost, and was not a happy camper, feeling he had gained an unfair advantage. He told me that he simply could not play until late Sat night and get up early and play Sunday morning, and also telling me I would understand if I lived to be his age. I have and I do. I did tell him, though, that I would have prefered that he take his half point gift in the third round, as EVERYONE should play in the final two games on Sunday! I feel strongly about this, and I know many other players who feel just as strongly about it as do I…Some players feel the need to take a half point bye in the fourth round in order to attend church. To quote the Legendary Georgia Ironman, “If they gotta go to church, then they shouldn’t play in a chess torunament. Playing in the fourth round IS MY CHURCH!”
Mr fpawn says “The main reason for a last round 1/2 point bye is to allow out of town players to travel home for work or school the next day. Many of these players simply will not come if a bye is not available.”
But there are other reasons. I have had one player tell me that he loses to higher rated and stronger players in most of the last rounds in which he plays, so he has been taking a gift half point in the last round and wishes it had been available when he started playing in tournaments!
If many of these players will not come if a bye is not available, then the rest of us will be better off! I mean, what, exactly, is the point of playing in a tournament if it is not to PLAY in the last round?
When did this dubious practice begin and by whom was it started?
When I played in backgammon tournaments the possibility of splitting the point in the last round was not even considered. It would be ABSURD to even consider awarding a half point in the last round of a backgammon torunament! Can anyone tell me of any other game in which a player is rewarded for NOT playing the final round?
baconlog.blogspot.com/
blog.chess.com/nocab
There’s a whiff of the lynch mob or the lemming migration about any overlarge concentration of like-thinking individuals, no matter how virtuous their cause.-P. J. O’Rourke
Can’t you make the same argument about any round? Why is the last round special? Why should the player who is tired on Saturday night benefit while the guy who has to drive home for 4 hours on Sunday night can’t request a bye? Or perhaps, are you arguing in favor of banning ALL half point byes?
Please note that traditionally the MOST bye requests in tournaments are either the first or last round. Why? Travel schedule. Getting to work or school on Monday morning is not something that most people can be flexible about.
Of course, if you prefer to limit your tournament to only local players, then this is not an issue. Around here, there are several local chess clubs that allow only zero-point byes in last round. However, most weekend events allow byes in any round, hoping to attract players who live further away.
Michael Aigner
As an organizer and TD, I’ll have to disagree with bacon as usual. As long as your rules are consistant as to the timing of the request and when you allow the byes it is fair to everyone. Personally, last round byes must be requested before the start of round 2. Requesting a bye is a gamble because it can cause you to lose the tournament whereas you could have won if you played.
Be fair and consistant and your players will keep coming back.
I can’t follow you at all. A prearranged result to a played game is collusion, a private agreement between two players that discriminates against the other competitors. A half-point bye is an option available to all competitors. Anyone who thinks that giving away a half-point in the last round is to their advantage can do it.
I need to be up for work Monday morning. I can’t be getting home at midnight, which is what would happen if I played the last round.
Same to you, buddy.
The point, exactly, is to play the other games, and to keep some–albeit substantially reduced–chance of winning a prize if you do well in the other games.
(For winning prizes, it’s much better to play the last round, at least around here. The slow weekenders are 4 rounds, and 2.5 will get you nothing, and even 3 often is out of the money. My chances of going 3 for 3 and so finishing with 3.5 are not substantially higher than my chances of hitting the numbers.)
I can’t tell you for sure, but the usual answer to “who started it” questions about American tournament practices is “Bill Goichberg”. That’s how I’d bet, anyway. But I can tell you “why”–because more people show up and play entry fees.
Bacon is invited to publish “no byes allowed” in the tournaments he organizes. I won’t be in attendance.
The 1/2 bye is often used for strategic purposes to win prizes. I have seen players in the 1800-2100 range scope out pre-registered lists and opt for a bye so that they can slide through avoiding tougher pairings. It doesn’t always work, but they do it anyway. An extra half point can mean all the difference in prize chances to a class player. While his rivals are getting pounded by higher rated foes, they wait for the carnage to end so that they can pick up their prize.
As one class C player related to me, “the purpose of playing in tournaments is to make money. I could care less for rating points. Rating points are for kids.”
Come to think of it, this idea of taking 1/2 byes is such a good idea, I as an older player might start doing it myself. Maybe I shouldn’t try so hard in early rounds so that I can play GM’s and IM’s in rounds 4 and 5 of a weekend tournament. My philosophy has always been to play in tournaments to win them, but maybe I should think more strategically and “satisfice.”
And versa vice.
To enjoy the warm fellowship and friendly camaraderie of the other players.
Mr Aigner, the last round is special for several reasons. I have played in USCF tournaments for almost 40 years now, in one half of the states in our country. I have frequently heard the last round referred to as the “money round.” Not once, in all that time, have I ever heard the first round referred to that way. In many tournaments the first round will have a faster time control. Many tournaments have a faster time control for several of the rounds at the beginning of a tournament. I have never seen a tournament with a faster time control for the last round; nor have I ever seen standard games to begin the tournament and faster time limits for the last two games on Sunday. Since some of you seem to think it imperative for out of town players to be able to leave early, then maybe this could be something to consider? (I sure hope not!)
Mr Joshua, the Jedi, my question was not whether it is “fair and consistant”, but whether it is “ethical.” What, exactly, are you disagreeing with, sir?
As for Mr Edgy, who wrote, “Anyone who thinks that giving away a half-point in the last round is to their advantage can do it,” Tell us something we DO NOT know! That, sir, is my point. Is it ETHICAL?
Many times over the years the Ledgendary Georgia Ironman and I would arrive home at o’dark thirty from a chess trip, having to work that day. We did not have the option of taking a gift half point in lieu of playing the last round. And I’m sure I can speak for Mr Brookshear when I say that, if we had the option, we would NOT have taken it! We traveled to the tournament to play in the LAST ROUND!
Edgy, I am not your “buddy.” I do not even know you!
baconlog.blogspot.com/
blog.chess.com/nocab
There’s a whiff of the lynch mob or the lemming migration about any overlarge concentration of like-thinking individuals, no matter how virtuous their cause.-P. J. O’Rourke
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I can think of no better reason to take a bye.
Probably with the notion that it can be fair, yet unethical.
You have been repeatedly challanged to give a reason why it would possibly be unethical. You have not done so. One might begin to think that you had no reason, and were just throwing a little tantrum to get attention.
“Same to you, buddy” is a common idiom, at least in this part of the world, where “buddy” is used ironically and usually in place of some word that would not be allowed under this board’s AUG. Believe me, it in no way implies that I consider you worth more than the barest civility. If that. Capisce?
I have no problem with someone requesting a 1/2 point bye in the last round if the cut off is early. On Thursday nights at the Marshall CC byes need to be requested by 8:15 which is the start of round 2. A player who is 1-0 and requests the bye may or may not win round two and/or three. Since it can’t be retracted there is no issue with someone changing their mind when they see they’re in contention, but need a last round win to get in the money.
The last round is at 10:45 pm, so during the school year kids typically take a last round bye. My feeling is I’m not going to concern myself with what other players are going to do in terms of byes. I prefer to play all the rounds of a tournament, but sometimes taking a last round bye is the only way I can possibly play in the event. So do I skip the event all together because I can’t take a bye, or do I come and play the first 3 rounds and take my bye for round 4?
Yes I know in the good old days byes were not an option. If you couldn’t play a round you let the TD know and you weren’t paired and you got nothing for that round. Maybe some people would like to see missed rounds handled in that manner again, but it’s not going to happen. The genie is out of the bottle, and he’s not going back in. Everybody in the tournament has the right to ask for byes in manner announced by the organizer. Whether a player chooses to his totally up to him. If he doesn’t and he happens to get paired against somebody who is all rested and relaxed because he did take a bye the round before, then tough luck. That’s just how it worked out.
Exactly! He has strong opinions about what is “correct” for a chess tournament, so he should feel free to organize a “No-byes allowed”/“No class prizes tournament”. But just don’t expect an outpouring of Class A-E players (whose numbers support the top section’s prizes), whose “other life” doesn’t occasionally impact on playing all rounds of a chess tournament. There’s a reason that other chess tournament organizers have found the half-point bye to be a reasonable compromise in order to encourage greater tournament participation.
I’ve played in a several out-of-state tournaments, and a few times I’ve opted (prior to the start of the tournament) to take the last-round bye. It has never been to my benefit – in one Grand Prix swiss I was 3/4, and the last-round bye effectively took me out of contention for the section prizes. In a typical Grand Prix swiss Class A-E section of say, 28 - 48 players, a score of around 80% is usually needed to finish in one of the top three places, so taking a half-point bye is something I don’t want to do, unless my “other life” intrudes. In addition, I would venture to guess that more often than not, the most-difficult game for a Class A-E section winner occurs earlier than the last round. E.g., Round 3 or Round 4 sees the last of the perfect scores paired against each other. By the last round, the tournament leader(s) often know that not only have they already faced their most-feared opponent, but that a draw will be sufficient to clinch at least a share of 1st-place.
In my “other life”, I’m up at 5:00AM or earlier for work. So are a lot of other people, especially those with families.
Interestingly, this also happens to be the USCF’s official position as well. The Scholastic Council has also outlawed the practice of allowing half-point byes in the last round of the National Scholastics, because there is no reason for scholastic players to attend the nationals if they are not going to play the last round either.
There is, in my opinion, a big difference between a major tournament and a 3 round Tuesday night G/30 event with a $5 entry fee, such as the one Mr. Bacon most recently referenced in his blog. He’s opined strongly against the last round bye in his blog frequently in the context of his reports on the House of Pain events (I do appreciate those reports and his inimitable style). Some of the players in question are students for whom a 10:30 finish isn’t an option. I am glad we give such students the opportunity to play 2 rated games a week even if they can’t stick around for round 3.
When I play in the typical weekend 5 rounder, I almost always skip round 4 for church. If others don’t approve of that option, they don’t have to take it, but it makes life easier for me. If I can’t play Friday night, I skip round 3 instead because 3 rounds is too much chess for me now.
On a one day g/45 I usually play all four rounds. In the last one I played took a bye in the last round because it was a very hot day and the House’s AC is not up to the task. I knew I couldn’t play that round. Mr. Bacon’s comments on his blog about that event referred to that bye as “strategic” when the bye allowed me to split a prize several ways and almost get my entry fee back while playing would have led to me playing a solid expert. The bye was “strategic”; it’s bad strategy to play a game of chess against anyone in your sleep.
Sorry my friend, but I can’t share your opinion about last round byes. I do think they should only be allowed if committed to before the start of round 1.
Edgy writes, “You have been repeatedly challanged to give a reason why it would possibly be unethical. You have not done so.”
I have not done so, sir, because the question I asked to begin this discussion was: “Is the awarding of a half point bye in the last round ethical?”
I did not posit the statement: “Awarding a half point bye in the last round is unethical.” I suppose if I had, it would then be incumbent upon me to give a reason why it is not ethical. I do not like the practice, but I’m not positive it is unethical. That is why I asked the question.
Edgy, you need to give some serious consideration to doing something to “take the edge off,” BUDDY!
Mulfish, you sent me to the files of the BaconLOG to reread what I wrote concerning your “strategic” half point bye in the G/45! Whew! Am I glad that was all I wrote! I do recall your explaining the situation with me, Michael, and I meant it as nothing more than a jest. We have reached the age, my friend, that if we need to take a half point bye in every other round in order to play, SO BE IT! Four games in a day, whatever the time control, is a lot of chess at our age. Which is, come to think of it, the reason I have so much respect and admiration (and yes, a little envy!) for Seniors like Klaus Pohl and David “High Plains” Vest. They play EVERY game!
As for the Tuesday Night Fights…Actually, I was thinking more about weekend tournaments and major tournaments, as opposed to the week night events. Samuel Zimmerman and Joe Moon had to take a half point bye in the last round of the ill fated Miami Open, and Zimmy was lamenting the fact that taking the bye possibly cost him money. Certainly I understand why they did it; they had to get back for school the next day. Yet, I can’t help thinking that if it was important enough for them to spend all that time and money to travel to the tournament, that maybe arrangements could be made to skip that school day. I mean, can you imagine Ray Robson taking a half point bye in the last round of that tournament?
I’m glad you appreciate my reports, Mr Mulford, and I appreciate even more the fact that you put it in print! Ours is a mutual admiration society, sir! Our dialogue means more to me than you can know…
Thank you for pointing out that fact, of which I was unaware, Mr Immitt. I relish your sometimes acerbic posts!
baconlog.blogspot.com/
blog.chess.com/nocab
There’s a whiff of the lynch mob or the lemming migration about any overlarge concentration of like-thinking individuals, no matter how virtuous their cause.-P. J. O’Rourke