Zero-Point byes are allowed, however: new.uschess.org/news/attention- … de-events/
What happens if there is an odd number, and someone gets a full-point bye?
I don’t understand.
Alex Relyea
I am pretty sure that is allowed since a full-point bye is not requested but forced.
Rare, but I am almost certain that if someone is getting a full-point bye in the last round, their norm chances were already over in round 8, e.g. even in a 9-round norm tournament, a WIM needs at least 3 1/2 points against opponents’ average rating of 2330.
Best,
~Ybriang
Brian Yang
Are you talking about US Chess norms in a US Chess event, or FIDE norms in a FIDE event?
Bill Smythe
Why should someone in the tournament who is not going for a norm and who is taking a half-point bye in the last round invalidate all the norms in the tournament for players who play all the rounds?
Why does this apply for half-point byes but not zero-point byes?
When did this rule become effective?
How did this rule become a rule?
When did FIDE begin to recognize 1/2 point byes?? I do remember that years ago you could get a 1/2 point in a North America tournament [CN & US], but that when it was submitted to FIDE it would be a 0 point bye. Has this changed, and if so when?
Larry S. Cohen
Your comment about messing up norm opportunities does not appear to apply if you read the whole thing. I quote from the notice:
"Werner Stubenvoll (QC Chairman) and Nick Faulks (QC Secretary) provided the following: “For rating purposes we can accept a half-point bye in the last round, but not for norm tournaments. If a half-point bye is given in the last round we will not accept any title norm.”
The US Chess office will be submitting a proposal for the next FIDE Congress which will clarify the Competition Rules so that the above is clear.
Organizers and arbiters of regular, non-norm FIDE-rated events may offer half-point byes in the final round to players who give adequate notice. Swiss events which offer norm opportunities may not offer half-point byes in the final round. Final round zero-point byes or withdrawals are permitted in either case."
The quote appears to substantiate what I posted.
I’m not parsing language.
The last paragraph says norm events may not offer 1/2 byes in the last round.
I was asking why and how this change was done.
Why is someone who takes a bye in Round 8 OK, but someone who would want to take a bye in Round 9 not allowed to do this?
Asking in the US Chess forums about why FIDE made a change may not be the fastest way to get an answer. I’d suggest contacting the other members of the FIDE events committee you are one, or the US Chess members on some of FIDE’s committees and see if they can get the reasoning. If you get an answer I know I’d like it if you posted it. Not everybody reads the announcements so I am glad you brought the issue up in the forums.
FIDE is like many rule-making bodies (including US Chess), stricter rules tend to be a reaction to situations that were thought to be abusive. Can someone offer a justification for allowing half-point byes in the final round? I’ve seen them abused, even in local swisses.
Steve,
This is not a new rule. It is in the FIDE rules of competition which lists 2014 as the last amended date. The text says:
“In an L2, L3 or L4 tournament the rules may permit a player to take a half point bye in a given round. It is only allowed if adequate notice has been given and is agreed to by the arbiter.
Such permission might not be granted to a player who receives conditions, or who has been given a free entry to the tournament. It is not permitted in the last round of a tournament.”
L3 competitions are any FIDE rated event. So, we are already getting a waiver to do it in our FIDE rated events.
As to why, I have no idea. My understanding is that FIDE has never really understood the fact that people have a life outside of chess and may not play in a tournament that only offered 0 point byes. Some in FIDE think 1/2 point byes are not fair to the people who are playing. My question is why does FIDE care about how a non-norm event is run? As long as we follow the FIDE rules of chess the game should be able to be rated by FIDE.
I could take a paranoid scenario: What if in the last round person X needs a foreign player to get a norm. Somehow the organizer convinces the correct people to take 1/2 point last round byes that changes the pairings to give person X a foreign player. This doesn’t really explain it though because you could just have the right people withdraw and the net result would be the same.
Mike Regan
Except that, if someone is in the running for prize money, it’s easier to get them to take the 1/2 point than to withdraw.
The US Chess news story in the original post has been amended with the following edit:
rules.fide.com/images/stories/FI … _clean.pdf
Here is the new rule that takes effect July 1, 2019:
"Unless the rules of a competition specify otherwise:
(4) In an L2 or L3 tournament the rules may permit a player to take a half point bye in a
given round. It is only allowed once during the tournament, if adequate notice has
been given and is agreed to by the arbiter. Such permission might not be granted to a
player who receives conditions, or who has been given a free entry to the tournament."
Because last rounds are susceptible to norm-securing shenanigans.
Griping about this is not a good look.
In FIDE rules there are 4 levels of tournaments. Steve was in Georgia at the Congress and addressed this issue but they actually ended up making it worse. We protested on the floor and got it changed to exclude level 4 events, which are your run-of- the-mill FIDE rated event.
It remains quite amazing to me after FIDE rule deficiency after FIDE rule deficiency is pointed out compared to US Chess rules, that there are those who for some inane reason continue to clamor for uniformity with FIDE.
And this rule, is just, another in a very long line of such deficiencies between FIDE and US Chess.
Truly, trying to mirror FIDE is like the beauty queen deciding that ugly is better.
Rob Jones
I would allow them only if requested at time of registration; there are times when a person expects to have to leave, but still wants to support the event. Of course, I’m speaking of local tournaments where everyone knows each other, and there’s no expected attempt to guarantee a prize.