Let us assume that the players are using a DGT XL clock in a sudden-death time control. Although both may run out of time, only one will have the “flag”. (I think other digital clocks work this way, too.)
In a FIDE-rated tournament, the player whose flag was down would lose, even though both are out of time.
What about a USCF tournament?
While both players may be out of time, only one (the first to run out of time) has his flag down. What should be the result of the game?
My opinion is that if the game is FIDE-rated, the result is decicive (1-0), and if it is not FIDE-rated (USCF-rated only) then it is a draw.
This can never happen with the DGT clocks. When one player’s time expires, both clocks stop.
The situation with two time controls is a bit different. First, is it even possible to set a DGT for two controls while setting the number of moves to 00? If so, what happens when one player runs out of time during the first control? Does a flag appear on one side, but both clocks get the secondary time added and continue to run? And in this case, does the flag remain on for the rest of the game, or does it disappear after, say, five minutes?
I believe this is only true for the increment modes, not for all modes.
When one player uses up all the time in one control, the clock adds the time for the next control to both players and displays a flag for five minutes to indicate which side ran out of time.
Not so on mine. It is a new (just go it a week ago) GDT XL. If one side flags and presses his clock, the other side runs until out of time, but only the first side to run out of time gets the flag indicator.
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Yes, in mode 00 (user-defined) one does not have to put the number of moves per time period (set it to 00).
Yes, when one player runs out of time, he gets the flag indicator set, and both sides get time added for the next period.
The flag disappears (usually) when the other player is low on time. (The flag disappeared when the time limits were 5 minutes for the first and 2 minutes for the second.) Even if the flag doesn’t disappear (which happened when my two controls were one minute for the first and 30 seconds for the second), the player to run out first (on the second control) has a flashing flag.
wilecoyote’s response is correct regarding the DGT North American. I’d bet that the European models halt at end in all modes. Those models probably do not have USA-style delay, but they do have Bronstein mode, which is mathematically equivalent.
I’d further bet that the newest DGT model, that has both Bronstein and USA-style delay, will halt at end in both increment and Bronstein modes, but not in USA delay mode.
Based on the above, I’d also bet that narceleb was in USA-delay mode when he discovered that his clock did not halt at end, and that his experience would have been just the opposite in increment mode or Bronstein mode.
Actually, I had no delay set at all on the DGT XL.
So I just tried it in delay mode. It is Bronstein delay. It does NOT stop-on-end. (When one side runs out of time, the other side does continue to run.) And even when both sides are out of time, only the first to run out has a flag indicator.
Again, though, when in Fischer (increment) mode, it DOES stop-on-end.
I just tried this on the DGT NA in delay mode. After both sides reach 0:00, a flag is also displayed on both sides of the clock. There is no way to tell which side flagged first. Thus, it is a draw under USCF rules.
For that matter, what else could it be but a draw under FIDE rules—or any rules, unless a TD/arbiter observed the end of the game?
That would also be a draw under FIDE rules, because you could not tell which side flagged first.
On the XL, the only way to get both sides to flag is for one player to flag in the first time control, and have his opponent flag in the second, where the second time control is less than five minutes. Even in that case, the player who flagged in the second time control will have a flashing flag. Thus, we can tell which flag is which, and make a decisive (non-draw) ruling.
FWIW, I just purchased a DGT 3000, and the tournament I’m playing in doesn’t have a time control that matches a pre-set. Since I had to set the time control by hand, I noticed that there was a “freeze” option. Not sure about any presets.
It seems to me to be a straightforward exercise to read the relevant rules and determine the answer. Both the USCF and FIDE rules are clearly worded.
“The game is drawn” is unambiguous. The point is that, under USCF rules, a player who has overstepped the time limit can not claim a win because an opponent has overstepped the time limit.
Please also review rule 13C13:
Rule 14G2 only applies if neither player points out the flag fall(s). It is necessary because a TD can not call a fallen flag (rules 16E and 13C1). If rule 14G2 were not available, the next round could be delayed arbitrarily long if the two players do not notice (or choose to ignore) the fallen flags.
The situation is different under the FIDE Laws of Chess:
The phrase “and it is impossible to establish which flag fell first” makes all the difference here.
I like the new policy, of which I was not aware. Was this part of the revisions that took effect last July? GM Sutovsky says he knew of the policy, and at GM/professional level, I would guess nearly all players also know about it.
This way, a clock is just that—a clock. Analog clocks do not add time after move 40, (or whatever) so why should digital clocks? GM Sutovsky shows class in how he describes what must have been a frustrating incident, but adding time after the primary control is used up, no matter what move it is when that happens, is best.
One nuance of DGT clocks could add to the confusion, though. Those clocks do not show the clock-press count on the display. You can access the count by pressing a button but otherwise you can’t see it at a glance. (Not sure about the 3000, but that’s how the NA and 2010 work.)
But: The clock can be set to add time after xx moves when in multi-control increment mode. Thus, after 40 clock presses by each side, the secondary time will be added—even if the clock-press count differs from the actual move count…and the players could be taken by surprise when the time is added, if they are really on move 39 or 41 when the clock ‘thinks’ it’s 40.
That is how the clock worked for the WC match last year, I think. It’s fine for an event where an arbiter watches each board closely—but it’s a Real Bad Thing for big Swisses without many TDs around.
It sounds like FIDE realized this and decreed that clocks that ‘could’ be set that way should instead be set to the more logical standard of adding secondary time after primary time expires.
Can any FIDE rules gurus confirm this?
Anyway, at the GM level you could make the argument that GM Sutovsky suggests in his post. In the trenches of a large Swiss with few TDs and amateur players who sometimes can’t set their own clocks, setting a clock that way----secondary time added based on an “invisible” alleged move-count—is asking for mayhem.
At the WC match last year the time was definitely added immediately after move 40 was completed. On most clocks I don’t think it is possible to choose which way it is done.
On the Saiteks the time is only added after the previous time control has ended (as it may now be required apparently). There is no way to change this. The DGT clocks apparently (I don’t have much first hand knowledge on this) differ depending on which mode you’re in. Some modes add after move “40” and some don’t. Confusing to the clock setter, I’m sure.
