This year, as a change of pace, I ponder setting my Chronos with no move counter for the USATE.
The more I think of it, the less I like move counters on digital clocks. This belief was reinforced by a game at our club last week; the players started late, thus played by mutual agreement at a faster-than-announced time control.
In the rush to re-set the clock—an Excalibur Game Time II—the move counter was set to “Off”…and as I watched the time scramble at the end of the first time control, (40/75 in place of our standard 40/90) I thought to myself, “This is a Good Thing.” One player made the control at move 40 with two seconds to spare—but he could not take an educated guess that was so by glancing at the clock. (Yes, you take a chance on the move counter being wrong, but still.)
Here’s my question: Has enabling the move counter—by far the most common approach, in my experience—been anointed with official “preferred” status? (If so, would that make the Saitek less -preferred than other digitals?) I expect at least one opponent to complain if I show up in Parsippany with my Chronos set sans move counter.
At least we are clear on deducting five minutes from the main clock time to compensate for delay…at least for this year.
I don’t know which status is officially preferred. Each has its advantages.
It should be up to the players to determine if the time control was satisfied. Same as for claiming a draw on 3-fold repetition, a flag falling when using analog clocks, or an illegal move.
Counters and/or settings can be defective. I had some kind of weird setting on my Game Timer that caused the game to begin, at least for one player, with move 1 instead of move 0.
Which raises the point of unresolvable discrepancies. Imagine a game where the counter says “40” but the scoresheets say something else, and both players have incorrect moves (but not enough to trigger the three-whole-move rule).
On the other hand the counter eliminates some potential issues.
It promotes good chess by displaying each player’s status, i.e. that there is no need to blitz. It eliminates problems associated with the annoying habit by some players of hiding their scoresheets (and thereby not allowing their opps to see that move 40 has been reached), or related gamesmanship (fudging moves or omitting them [but no more than 3, as per rules for claiming a win on time]).
If I were voting on this issue I’d make the counters optional, at the clock-owner’s discretion.
Pertains to the rule change that takes effect on Jan. 1, 2012, that eliminates the option to deduct main clock time to compensate for delay. That could change at this year’s Delegates meeting.
My weak attempt at sarcasm pertains to the state of the art in big events here in the Northeast/upper mid-Atlantic sandbox. Deducting five minutes from the main time control is so common that some experienced players think it is THE rule; i.e. not only do they not realize that deducting time is an option and not the default…they also do not realize that not deducting the time is even an option.
This since deducting time is SOP at the USATE, most or all CCA events, at the Marshall Club, at least in Steve Immitt’s events, most clubs in NJ, and so on. I lean toward supporting the rule change to abolish deducting time, though I do not feel strongly about it—but it will take heap long time for it to sink in, if it happens.
This has been chewed on at length in other threads.
Ah, I see. At my tournaments, also in the northeast, I specifically direct players not to deduct time. Actually, I tell them how to set their clocks (for example, “Set your analog clocks to 5:00. Set your digital clocks for 60 minutes with a five second delay.” Maybe things are different slightly further south, but here players are never sure how the TD wants them to set their clocks. I anticipate that, even after the rules change goes into effect next year, they’ll still ask. Unfortunately, most players aren’t completely up on the rules changes, as evidenced by those who still think higher rated always gets due color. You’d have to be a pretty inexperienced TD to not have had a player come up to you and say something along the lines of “Why didn’t I get White? I’m the higher rated.”
This is the point on which I want to get clear. If both players show up on time, Black supplies a Chronos with the move counter disabled and White wants the move counter turned on, can he insist that it be turned on?
I hoped to get word on this from some experienced TDs…I can look up the wording in the Rulebook on my own. Standard practice is to enable move counters for any move-based time control, from what I have seen…but can either player demand that it be so?
Actually, CCA events do NOT subtract the 5 minutes, if I’m remembering correctly. But it does seem to vary depending on the TD more than anything else, so I (along with many other players) make a point of asking at most tourneys.
Not an experienced TD, but it would seem to me that it goes along with Black having the right to provide the equipment that he has the right to set up the equipment as he chooses – where there are options on how to setup the equipment.
The only thing the rules have to say about the setup of clocks are of course that the details of the time controls (including delays, increments, etc) must be correctly set on both clocks. Nothing is said about move counters.
In fact, it is interesting to consider whether the rules really even allow move counters. You could argue that this is using outside assistance for something which the players are supposed to monitor themselves by keeping score.
An interesting question, sort of the inverse of your question, is if White did not want move counters enabled on Black’s clock, could he insist that it be turned off? That his opponent rely on his scoresheet for the count of moves?
If CCA does not direct players to deduct time to compensate for delay, that is a very recent change. If true, it might have something to do with FIDE requirements for time controls in events that grant title norms.
The 5th Edition Rulebook just says that move counters are legal, but players rely on them at their own risk. (Rule 42B2 on page 228.) It does not say that either enabling or disabling the move counter is “preferred.”
Players like to see the additional time for the secondary time control added as soon as move 40 (or whatever) has been reached, I think. Waiting for the primary time to elapse before the secondary time is added can be confusing, perhaps; that’s the only way a Saitek clock can be set, though, as far as I know.
Yes, you could argue that move counters provide outside assistance; the counter-argument, as outlined in Rule 42B2, is that the assistance is impartial and available to both players.
I plan to set my Chronos without the move counter as option 1 for the USATE. I will have the counter enabled as option 2, should anyone object. We shall see.
As a player, I usually prefer to have the move counter set, at least in a multiple-control event. I especially like the idea of having the extra hour added right at move 40. Less confusing that way.
However, if my opponent (at the start of the game) says he prefers the move counter off, I’m happy to oblige him.
As a TD, I say let the player furnishing the clock have his way. If white furnishes the clock with the counter on (off), and black wants the counter off (on), let black furnish the clock and set the counter the way he wants. If black can’t furnish a clock or doesn’t know how to set it, let white have his way.
Based on my years of TD experience, move counters create more problems than they solve. At the 2009 National Chess Congress I counted 6 different games in which I was called to the board because of questions/problems created by the move counter. Although I solved all of them to the players’ satisfaction, they also were unnecessary. I point out to the players that they count clock presses, not moves and therefore cannot be trusted. While I don’t require them to be turned off, when asked, I recommend the game be played without it.
Incorrect, CCA events DO deduct the 5 minutes (at least that was the policy at the recent Liberty Bell Open). As far as I know, that has always been CCA policy and they have no plans to change it.
Normally, CCA events deduct the 5 minutes. They may change this policy – in publicity for their most recent tournament, they announced that the 5 minutes would NOT be deducted:
Ahh, my mistake. I usually attend one or two CCA events per year, so I must have confused them with other events I’ve attend that don’t subtract the 5 minutes.
It took me around 5 games of enabling the move counter on my shiny new digital clock before I realized that it created more problems than it solved. I keep it off all the time now. I must not be the only one, since I’d say that move-counter-users are a distinct minority at my club.
That depends on the player. A player who fails to notice minor clock irregularities is likely to have problems with the move counter.
If, for example, the game begins by white moving rather than by black starting white’s clock, the move counter is likely to be off by half a move. The observant player, as white, will either wait for black to start the clock or will start it himself before making his first move.
Or if, at some point in the game, a player forgets to press his clock, the counter will be off by a full move. The observant opponent will either remind the player to press the clock, or (if he is tired of reminding) eventually make his own move, then press first his opponent’s clock and then his own to keep the move count accurate.
So, whether you (as a player) have trouble with move counters depends largely on your personality.
TDs should remember that they are there for the players, not the other way around. A TD who forgets this may be doing too much directing and too little playing.
Let the players use the move counter if they want to, and let the TD deal with any minor problems that may arise.