New Rating System Status Update

Several people have asked for a status update on the new ratings system, and this is as good a time as any to write one, because the USCF systems are entering their daily maintenance period.

Those of you who don’t like seeing sausage made can skip the rest of this note. :slight_smile:

I started out on Friday morning with 251 events that appeared to be ready to rate. I had to place a few of these on hold, so I’m down to 239. (Some were matches or round robin events that we aren’t ready to rate yet, others had some potential ratings issues such as combined ratings for duplicate IDs that I wasn’t sure had been resolved, so I wasn’t sure if they were ready to rate.)

Of those events, 67 are reports received by the USCF office and the rest are ones entered online. That’s mostly a function of time, the online events have been queuing up for over a month, since we haven’t rated any events that ended in 2005 yet, while the ratings staff has only been processing events mailed to the office for about two weeks and is still picking up speed at it.

I’ll see if I can get Nancy to come up with an estimate of the number of rating reports they have piled up on people’s desks waiting to be processed.

When we start to train a mostly new office staff on rating reports, it’ll take them some time to build up speed as well, but I think the NY staff will be handling most ratings reports until some time in March.

I’m to the point where I’m pretty satisfied that the 239 events I have been testing are being rated properly, though I’m still checking them for a few issues.

Next up is writing out the post-event ratings to the new ratings table.

Once that works, basically they’re rated. I still hope to be at that point before I quit for the night.

Then I have to change how we update the ratings information on MSA, since that will be coming from the new ratings system. That will probably take me most of Monday to get working.

Dual rated events will probably not show up properly on MSA at first, since it appears that while the MSA database tables have space for both ratings, it can only display one of them at a time. That probably means that the quick portion of dual-rated events won’t show up on the crosstables on MSA right away though updated quick ratings from dual-rated events should be part of the ratings information shown on the member screen.

Tuesday I have to head to Tennessee to help get the new USCF office set up. Until we have Internet access working there, I won’t be able to do any work on the ratings system, and probably won’t even have e-mail or web access.

I don’t know if I’ll be ready to turn on the batch job for ratings before I leave for TN, so that probably means there won’t be any more events rated after this first batch until later this week, hopefully around Friday, assuming I have net access again by then. By then I would expect most of the ones on hold (other than matches and RR events) to be released and the NY ratings staff should have a number of other events ready to rate by then, too.

Printed crosstables for newly-rated events probably won’t be available for another week, possibly longer. We may have the ability to e-mail crosstables before we can send out printed ones.

A word of caution on the newly-rated events.

Because we are changing from a weekly cycle to a much more frequent cycle (probably several times an hour), many more events will be rated out of chronological order than before. The new system will try to find the most recent previous rating for each player, which most of the time will be from the most recently rated event for that player based on the event ending date, not the most recently rated event based on the rating batch date as in the old ratings system.

What this means is that if you played in 2 events, one on Friday and one on Sunday, and the Sunday event is rated first, when the Friday event is rated it will initially have the same pre-event rating as was used for the Sunday event.

The Sunday event will need to be re-rated to use the updated pre-event rating, ie, the post-event rating from the Friday event.

Events rated out of order have always been a problem, it’s just a much bigger one now because of the change in how frequently we rate events.

Alternate ways of dealing with out-of-sequence events, such as continuing to rate only once a week, leaving events in non-chronological order or holding more recent events for a few days in the hopes that earlier events will catch up with them all strike me as steps backwards, not forward.

Bulk re-rates of events to put recently rated events into true chronological order will probably begin in about two weeks. I know some people will be surprised when their rating changes even though they haven’t played recently, but keep in mind that with true chronological ordering the ratings you eventually see are what they SHOULD HAVE BEEN all along, if every event could be rated as soon as it ends.

I don’t know yet how far back we will be able to re-rate events, probably not as far back as anyone would like because of data problems. Re-rating is fairly fast (about 1/2 hour per month in tests), so if we can fix some of those data problems we can eventually re-rate further back, though eventually there will be a point beyond which we cannot go. Right now I’m thinking that point might be around September 1st, 2004, though I was hoping to be able to go back further than that.

Events from more than a few months ago that are submitted or rated late will probably not get re-rated. For inactive players, that may not make much difference, for really active ones the games since that event may have already factored out any gains or losses from a late-rated event anyway.

In one test case that I followed, an event held in June but just now being rated, one player gained 20 points from that event. However, he lost a lot of points in his next event, and when I track his updated rating through a few subsequent events it looks like he has given back 10 of those 20 points. The actual gain when all is said and done may be more or less than that, based on what his opponents in those events did over those months too.

I expect to have the first bulk re-rate done in time to resequence events for the April supplement, which I expect will be created on schedule in early March.

USCF’s long standing policy on rating supplements is that they cut off with events that ended the month before the supplement is created. In other words, the April supplement would not normally include any events that ended after February 28th.

I don’t see a need to change that policy, though with online submission I expect that more late February events will be able to make the April ratings supplement than in years past. I expect that the delay in processing events, which has been running 3 weeks or longer for most of the last year, will be whittled down by a combination of the improved programming and the switch to online submission by TDs.

A reasonable goal would be to have events received in the mail processed and rated within a week of when they arrive at the office. Of course, events submitted online will be rated within minutes of when the TD submits them. (TDs who have used the online system have already found out that it can take them a while to get all the errors and warnings resolved, they’re learning what the office has had to do to get their events rated all along!)

(As always, writing notes like this helped me work out a few issues.)

I assume this means they’ll get rated out of order, as though they were more recent than they actually were.

I’m wondering whether a partial solution might be possible in such cases. For example, if a tournament held in January doesn’t get rated until October, and if it’s not feasible (in October) to do a re-rate any farther back than June, could the event still be re-rated as though it had been held in June? That would help a lot, I would think.

I suppose, if you REALLY want to get fancy, you could even apply a J-factor to each player’s rating change in a late-rated event. J could vary from 100% for a player who has played no subsequent games, to 0 for somebody who has played, say, 30 or more subsequent games.

If the ratings committee gets ahold of this one, I’m sure they’ll concoct a complicated formula for J which is a function of a dozen variables, including number of prior games, number of new games, age, K-factor, pre-error rating, 8th digit of social security number, military history, number of posts to this bulletin board, etc. :laughing: Lots of luck dealing with this!

Bill Smythe

The ratings committee has not had much to say about rerates, though not all members of the committee feel they’re necessary.

The data problem with rerates is only for events that were rated on the old ratings system and is related to lack of tracking information on ratings changes made in the past. This creates discontinuities in the flow of ratings history from the post-rating of one event to the pre-rating of the next event for that player. I have cataloged over 20,000 such discontinuities going back to late 1991, but that doesn’t tell me WHY there is a discontinuity, which affects whether I should ignore it in a re-rate or not.

Suppose that the discontinuity is due to an event having been deleted or an ID changed in an event. In that case, the discontinuity should be ignored, as the rerate will restore the correct sequence of ratings for the affected IDs.

However, suppose the discontinuity is due to combining two duplicate IDs into a single ID. In that case, the discontinuity is real and should not be ignored, though what to do with it is still not always clear. If at some point it becomes possible to update the crosstable detail to put all the history under a single ID, then a re-rate would make the combination process irrelevant, providing we can re-rate events back to the point where the duplicate ID surfaced.

Any events from 2005 and beyond should be reratable even if they come in 6 or more months late. Whether we want to rerate that many events is a separate issue from whether we can do it.

Nolan,
This sounds great! I’m a big fan of the online submission process but I was talking to a TD recently and he asked an interesting question. What about a TD who likes the old way of “mail it and forget it”? What’s in it for them? How do we get them to convert to the new system? The new system is clearly better for the players (they get to see results faster with less errors). It is better for the USCF (it will take much less staff to run the ratings system). But is is worse for the TD (they have to fix the errors that either were caught by the USCF or never caught).
I know you had to get the system working first. The early adopters among us have jumped on it. Now, what’s the carrot and/or stick that will move the rest of the TDs onto the new system?
My guess is that it would take a factor of two difference in the rating fee to really motivate people. The 10% difference is really not going to make people do significantly more work.
Thanks,
Mike

I think that in any area where there are TDs competing against each other for players at their events, a TD who sends his results in online will have an edge over one who does not. I think the free market system will work in favor of online submission.

The last time I analyzed it, over 85% of scholastic events were being submitted on diskette and about 75% of adult events were being submitted on diskette. I think many of those will become online submissions, probably quite quickly now that the new rating system is running.

We’ve already seen a few TDs who used to send in paper reports switch over to online reporting.

The real issue will be the extent to which TDs are willing to clean up their own data. That’s where some pricing differential may come in. For example, it has been suggested that the USCF charge $1 for every ID that isn’t on the paper report or diskette. That’s the real time-killer, both in terms of staff time and in terms of delays in getting events rated.

There are some people who think the USCF should discontinue accepting rating reports on paper. I’m not in agreement with that, though I think we do need to analyze the costs once we get the new staff in Tennesee trained and set fees accordingly.

For the directors in the mail it and forget it. It will not be long before the players will demand online reporting and online memberships.

Nolan:

For the TD’s that still send in disks, it could cause re-rating of events. If Director A has a tournament on Saturday, then sends the tournament on disk. It could take a number of days before it will get to the rating department. If Director B has a tournament on Sunday, and its sent online, it will be rated in a matter of hours and posted on the MSA within hours or in days.

If a player went to both tournaments, and Director A’s tournament was a day before Director B’s tournament. When the computer disk gets to the rating department, Directors B’s tournament would have been rated and posted. This will cause Directors B’s tournament needing to be rerated.

Are we not seeing the official ending of handwritten reports and computer disks. As the rating department was having to support two different systems, computer disk and handwritten reporting. Are we looking at the idea of the federation not supporting handwritten reporting in a few years.

Yes, that would cause a re-rate, but we will probably be doing those on a weekly basis anyway.

I told the Delegates last August that by this August I expect that 75% of all memberships and 90% of all tournament games will be submitted online.

Last week the USCF processed 1467 memberships. 849 or 57% of them were submitted through the TD/Affiliate Support Area or the USCF webstore.

However, I think we should continue to accept reports on diskette and paper, though I suspect diskette submissions will drop off sharply as more TDs figure out how to use the online process.

You can’t abolish mailing in items. There are directors around here who don’t have a computer and still run tournaments by hand.

Your scenerio is a valid, but one that has problems today. I’ve played in tournaments where it literally took the TD 9 months to submit the event. I played in another event that hasn’t been rated yet.

So like it or not, these systems will be around for atleast the next 25 years. Requiring people to submit items online is like forcing everyone to get the internet and a laptop.

Good luck with that one. I don’t see where you come up with re-rating events. If a tournament is rated, and a pre-dated tournament is received, then it’s rated, the prior tournament does NOT get re-rated.

Is seeing pairing cards and handwritten tournament reports in 2030, would be shocking. I will say it, I was the last major director in Michigan that used pairing cards. I’ve talked to the managment that wants tournaments at the site. Have made it very clear, the site will have a online computer and computer software. Understood were Nolan was taking the rating department with online reporting.

Will make it very clear to anyone. If they (organizer) want me to be the director, if they do not have a online computer at the registeration desk – will not be the director. If a new member comes to my event, going to get them their USCF ID number before the pairings of the first round are done. When the tournament is done will all the games, the online tournament report is going out and received before the players get home.

If a director does not send it online, when the players start to see their ratings rerated. Because the director does not send in the tournament on time, it will effects the players that went to that directors event. It will effect all the players of that tournament, and all the players of that event that plays with anyone else. If that tournament is late, the players can go off and be in other tournaments. When that late tournament is rated, it could cause 20 or 30 tournaments needing to be rerated.

When players see their games being rated and re-rated. They are going to be asking why its being re-rated after the tournament was rated months ago. Directors that do not get online and send in their tournaments late. They going to find themselves in a worst place then the dog house.

Some players don’t have a choice and they could play at a site that send in their tournaments right away. Then something happens and those tournaments are delayed for months or years. The player keeps playing at that site with the assumption the organizer will send them in with the new tournament. USCF hasn’t punished these organizers dispite multiple complaints against the infractions. They mearly get a verbal warning which seem to not do squat.

New tournament directors come about all the time, and that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to do everything electronically.

As I said before USCF does NOT re-rate events for idiots that take a year to submit a tournament. I have proof with a tournament I played in that was submitted 5 months late after constant bugging. Players continued to play at this site even though they didn’t submit a tournament in almost a year.

Just because you do it one way up there doesn’t mean it’s the same standard all over the country. Until technology is dirt cheap (which it wont be in a few decades), you’re always going to get people who don’t want to spend a few hundred bucks to simplify running their tournaments. This wont change. People run these tournament as cheaply as possible, in order to maximize their profits / prizes.

Mike,

First off, thanks for all your efforts! This is a gargantuan project, and I think the USCF is very lucky to have you working it.

Secondly, as to the discontinuities above; all of our club’s tournaments (and many other clubs do this too) are run with one round per week on the same weeknight (Tuesday’s in our case). So our tournaments start on, say, Feb. 1, 2005 and end on Feb. 22, 2005. During the month, our members may play in several other events (on weekends, or at other clubs for example). How does the rating system handle this? Will the pre-rating be the one at the start of the tournament, or the one at the end, before ours gets rated?

-Matt

Events are ordered as follows:

  1. Event Ending Date
  2. Event Beginning Date
  3. USCF Event ID
  4. Section Order

Suppose you played in 3 tournaments:

Event A began on Feb 1st and ended on Feb 15th

Event B began on Feb 2nd and ended on Feb 5th

Event C began on Feb 12th and ended on Feb 15th

These events would be rated in this order: B, A, C

The pre-event ratings for A would be the post-event ratings for B.

The pre-event ratings for C would be the post-event ratings from A.

What kills tournaments from happening month after month, is not the prize money or the tournament site. As I have been at a tournament site we call it the dungeon. What destroys the name of a director more then anything, is not sending in the tournament report.

Didn’t seem to be an issue here. People kept playing.

Mike,
I think a free market is great but most of us don’t live somewhere where there is really competition for tournaments. I bet than many other factors are more important to people than how fast a tournament is rated such as location, schedule, sections, and prize funds.
Another problem is that many times the TD and organizer may not be the same person. The organizer cares about the competition factor. The TD may not. He/she may just want to run a good tournament and not want to deal with the administrative stuff.
I think it is important for the USCF to charge what it truely costs to handle the various formats. I think a $1 per blank ID in the cross table would be a good incentive to TDs to use the online system to get the IDs for all the new people. Once you’ve done that, the online system is less of a hassle than mailing in the report.
At my last tournament I found 3 people who thought they had valid memberships. They had played in tournaments and the tournaments had been rated. I’m sure that the office held up the ratings for as long as possible but then just rated the tournaments. We ended up fixing their memberships after the tournament. If we can get every TD in a given area to use the online system, these problems should be rare. If only some of us use the online sytem, we’ll be dealing with the problems generated by the ones that don’t use it. That’s my concern.
Mike

You’re right that being lax about membership issues tends to snowball, though a TD who doesn’t ask to see membership cards, check expiration dates in the supplement or look players up on his computer or online is asking for BIG trouble sooner or later.

The policy question here is how tough to be. I’ve had some people tell me that we should be TOTALLY inflexible about rule 23C, but they have been known to change their tune if its THEIR event that is being held up because a membership from some other event hasn’t gotten processed yet.

It may take a while to formulate new policy regarding this, I can see a lot of initial resistance to the $1 per missing ID fee, which was actually proposed a number of years ago, long before it was so easy to look IDs up online much less submit memberships or events online.

I think that once players in your region are aware that it is possible to have updated ratings literally overnight, there will be considerable pressure on TDs to use the online system, even if you’re the only TD around. Kids and their parents seem to be more in a hurry over updated ratings than I remember being 20 years ago when I was an active player.

What I like (putting on my TD hat) is that I can be COMPLETELY done with the event a few hours after it ends. No report lost in the mail problems, no letter from the office telling me my event isn’t in ratable form, and I can have the updated ratings in my e-mail before I go to sleep.

MSA has already changed how I prepare for the annual tournament I run, the new online system will have at least that much impact.

Individual ratings have been updated on MSA, I’m still working on the program to update the crosstable history data.

I have no objection to a “missing ID” charge. The important thing to remember, though, is that the purpose of the USCF is not to collect money or discipline TDs. It is to serve its members by rating tournaments. At seventh and last, as they say, the USCF cannot penalize players (by delaying or declining to rate a tournament) because of incompetence or misconduct by the TD. Maybe you do something about him (or his affiliate) later, but the first priority has got to be to get the things rated.

John, how and when would you draw the line?

If you rate the event despite problems, you lose what little leverage you have over the TD or organizer.

As soon as another event is submitted, your argument that the USCF should do what it takes to rate the event so as not to punish the players is still just as valid as it was for the first event.