Rules question ?!?

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After the following opening moves:

  1. g4 b6 2. h4 Bb7 3. a4 Bxh1 4. Ra3 Bb7 5. Rh3 Nc6 6. Rh1 Nf6 7. Nf3 d6 8. Bg2 e6

– the white R on h1 has never moved from h1. Therefore, castling is legal, right?

Bill Smythe

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Move away from the chessboard, Bill :laughing:

Terry

This is actually covered by the rule 8A3:

8A3. Castling permanently illegal. Castling is illegal for the remainder of the game for a player:
a.
b. with a rook of that player that has already moved.

Nice joke Bill.

Aw, shucks, you’re ruining my fun by quoting a few facts.

At least 20 years ago, an author in Chess Life (maybe it was Saidy) proposed promoting a pawn on e7 to a rook on e8, then castling by moving Ke1-e3 and Re8-e2. He called this move O-O-O-O-O. His justification was that (unlike my example) the rook had NEVER moved (well, not in its life as a rook, anyway).

Bill Smythe

…but we can still have fun with this statement:

with a rook of that player that has already moved.

Why on earth is it necessary to state, “of that player”. Even if your opponent plays 1…h1/R (and the Rook has never moved from h1), castling would still be impossible because the Black Rook attacks the King, the square it crosses over, and it’s final destination square.

:open_mouth:

Kind Regards,
Tom Ewers

Hmm. I suppose white’s king on e1 could castle with black’s rook on h8 by moving, say, Ke1-f3 and Rh8-e2. That way you wouldn’t be in check and wouldn’t be castling through or into check. :laughing:

Bill Smythe

Bill, we should make you the chair of the rules committee for Fischer random chess. Have fun working with Bobby! :laughing:

The following is written in jest only, and should not be taken seriously…

The first time I saw this move was in a problem by Sam Loyd (Late 19th century). I know, because I was the chair of the Rules Committee then also (LOL).
That problem was the reason the rule (8A2) was changed to indicate that the king is to castle with “…either rook on the same rank…”.

To talk about an extremely bizarre and “arbitrary” rule, it is the castle itself! There are at least three rules that have to specify “except when castling” that it is obvious that the castle itself is an add-on and should be illegal (except when castling).

7A “The move is the transfer of A piece…” (the only time 2 pieces move is when castling)
7B “no pieces except a knight may cross a square occupied by another pieces” (the rook crosses a square occupied by the king when castling)
8A1 “the king moves to any adjoining square…” (only when castling the king moves to a square that is not adjoining)

in addition the following is also at least comprimised:
9A “the move is determined … when a player’s hand leaves the piece” (The rook still needs to be moved after releasing the king; see 9C)

and an additional exception is made (This one, I really object to…)
10I2 “If a player, intending to castle, touches the rook first, there is no penalty…”
(after all, the castle is a move of the king, the king cannot move two squares except when castling. The rook may legally move next to the king or to any of the other vacant squares between without castling. By touching the rook you are therefore intending on making a rook move, not a king move. Also releasing the rook to pick the up the king should (by 9A) have already determined the move.)

The Castle… a truly stupid and totally illogical and unexplainable move.

I digress, my random thoughts only, and not a proposal to end castling nor any of its exceptions.

Well, I expostulate too much…

If “Ke1-e3 and Re8-e2” is to be called “O-O-O-O-O,” then what the heck are we saving “O-O-O-O” for? BTW, you do mean to propose this as a new single move under the castling rules, right? Well, if this is not acceptable, I suppose you could still do it in 2 moves!

Regards,
AJG

Kingside 0-0, from h1 to f1 (black h8 to f8 ) is two squares over for the rook.
Queenside 0-0-0, from a1 to d1 (black a8 to d8 ) is three squares over for the rook.

If it is 0-0-0-0-0 for castle, King e1 to e3 (black e8 to e6) with rook e8 to e2 (black e1 to e6): that would be a move of the King 5 squares or 0-0-0-0-0. If the model is to be the rook like normal castle, it should be 0-0-0-0-0-0, as the rook has moved 6 squares.