I’m a local TD in Missouri and new to this forum. A fellow TD who recently became editor of our Missouri Chess Bulletin, asked me for some tournament games to put in the next issue. When I told him that players rarely gave me scoresheets, he said that he requires them for prizes.
I’m thinking that adding this requirement at this point may do more harm than good (or maybe I’m just uncomfortable with it). My question is this: Are there situations that any of you have experienced (or that you can think of) where not requiring scoresheets can become disadvantageous?
It doesn’t sound very workable. If a player left his first-round scoresheet at home, or lost it on the bus, are you going to refuse to give him his prize? If you really want all those game scores, you should supply double score sheets and require the players to turn them in when reporting their results. This works OK at the U.S. Open, but is labor-intensive.
From an editor’s viewpoint, getting all the scoresheets from a tournament (other than a master event) is kind of pointless, since most games are not publishable. A better method is probably to offer a small best-game prize.
We frequently require that one game be turned in prior to receipt of a prize. It’s announced at the beginning of the tournament and there has never been much resistance to the policy.
-Kevin Hyde
North Carolina
We prominently place a box to collect scoresheets next to where the new 2-part sheets and pencils are picked up, then ask for one copy the scoresheets to be turned in for publication. At an open tournaments for all ages last weekend we got over 80% of the games reported with at least one scoresheet. A bit less than 75% were sufficiently correct enough so far to allow entry into our on-line interactive games page at http://www.ochess.org/games.htm . The on-line publishing seems to encourage the scoresheets being turned in, at least by the winner.
I’ve heard a few of the strong(er) players around here somewhat object to the publishing of their games simply because it gives the weaker players the opportunity to study them.
A majority of players write their games in a wire bound gamesheet book, so no carbon copy is available.
Asking them to laboriously transcribe another paper copy for hand-in is a tough sell.
BRAINSTORM IDEAS THAT WOULD BE IMPRACTICAL:
[1]
For a small controllable environment, I can almost imagine having a laptop with Fritz9 set to a new game, with the engine toggled off.
Then each winner would record his victory by clicking the game into Fritz9 ply by ply on its display diagram. Then SaveAs PGN.
This would provide a readable and accurate “scoresheet”, and one that the newsletter or web publisher would not have to tediously type in from paper for publishing.
There would be every reason to make a simple placement of all the tournament games into one downloadable PGN file, quite nice for the tournament community.
[2]
I can almost imagine having each winner bring their gamesheet booklet by for you to take a digital photo of their scoresheet.
They might be too hard to read, even at high resolution.
Plus, then you have to be available all the time, or get interrupted a lot. No good.
This is legally correct, but this post and several others seem to be overlooking the fact that tournaments exist for players to enjoy themselves. Requiring that scoresheets be turned in can be justified when there is a compelling interest (as in the case of master round-robins), but enforcing it in minor swiss events seems a trifle onerous. If the players don’t object, fine – but I suspect some of them will, and organizers ought to remember who’s boss.
I agree that the player’s enjoyment is paramount and you don’t want to be an ogre about collecting scoresheets. Obviously, some game scores are more desirable than others. My scoresheets are pretty much worthless to anyone unless you need examples of blunders. However, top players need to realize there is a demand for their notation and they should be willing to give back to the chess community. Call me an idealist or naive.
Not all players will report their result of the game, this will force the director to check the returned scoresheets. If the players failed to report the results of the game, if the players failed to return in a scoresheet, and they are both late to the start of the next round. Than use rule 15G to double forfeit both players and pair the next round. If the players have their own scoresheets, and they will report the results of the game, they are fine to not give me a copy.
The reason to collect the scoresheets, as it will stop cheaters from making a false claim of a win or a draw … when they did lose the game. If you win your game, and your not sure your opponent will make a false claim: have your opponent sign the scoresheets.
The return of the copy scoresheets, is to take care of failed reporting of the game, and the false claim of a different result. If the director wants to look at the scoresheets to have them published, I do feel so sorry for that director. Having the scoresheets returned to the director to have them published, is on the bottom for the reason to collect the scoresheets in the first place.
If as the organizer/TD I provide duplicate scoresheets (which cost around a nickel apiece, which means it costs me over a dime per game to provide duplicate scoresheets), it is with the clear expectation of getting copies back from all players.
If I am not providing duplicate scoresheets, then I have no expectation of receiving copies of any games, though I usually put up a sign encouraging players to submit copies of their ‘interesting’ games if they want them considered for inclusion in the state magazine.
The reason to collect the scoresheets, as it will stop cheaters from making a false claim of a win or a draw … when they did lose the game. If you win your game, and your not sure your opponent will make a false claim: have your opponent sign the scoresheets.
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Thank you for this explanation. I see now that scoresheets are a good means of having accountability in what could otherwise become deceitful (then chaotic) situations. I’m thinking that this is more likely to occur in tournaments with more players/prizes, but I still need to be aware of it.
As a player I have not ever signed, nor asked anyone to sign a scoresheet (I was asked once, but declined out of anger when an “unrated” player who turned out to be a 2300 rated fide master eliminated me from prize contention). I’m not sure if this matters but I’ve not ever played in a class N tournament either, so maybe that’s why I’m not used to seeing signed scoresheets.
As a director I have a strong need to trust my players, otherwise I’d probably become paranoid. They all have my trust until they betray it after which I have no issue of conscience in suspending or banning them from my future events. In anycase, I appreciate all the advice from the more seasoned TD’s participating in this forum.
When I first started playing rated chess, in the Chicago area in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, it was standard practice for players to sign both scoresheets at the end of the game.
Howlett, I don’t think you need to collect scoresheets to stop people from cheating! I’d suggest you simply ask the players on the top 3 or 4 boards if they’d mind giving you a duplicate score sheet or two for publication. You run nice, friendly events – I just don’t see anyone cheating there as a realistic concern. I don’t think you should go to the trouble of getting anyone else’s scoresheets – does anyone REALLY want to see some Class B (or lower) games?
BTW I still ask all of my opponents to sign my scoresheet. Even when I lose.
The reason you as the director want the scoresheets, its not the issue of trust, its the players that did not report the result. Most players that report the results, was the player that won the game. Sure, if you lose you can report the results also.
The majority of the time, when the results are not posted. The game ended in a draw, so who reports the draw, who should report a draw? Is it the player that had white, is it the player with the higher rating? The only clear statement in the rules, is the correspondence chess rules – white reports the draw.
This is actually very clear. According to rule 15H both players are responsible for reporting the results of the game. The only time I ever deviated from this practice (trying to go to all the boards to get the results myself) I learned to reget it.
dmforsythe,
Once again you’re giving an answer to a question that wasn’t being asked. Howlett, never said he had trouble getting results posted. He asked about getting scoresheets for publication.
I doubt he has much trouble getting results reported – I certainly haven’t noticed any problems at his events. Even if he did, scoresheets aren’t a very convenient (to the TD) way of reporting results.
Just pointing out the reason why directors want the scoresheets. Will write to inform Howlett, and anyone that is a non-member of this forum. There are three major reasons (returned scoresheets) to have scoresheets, publishing is one, but it is last on the list.
True, scoresheets are not a convenient way to report the results. In fact, it is not the correct way to report the results. As the director, you have to get the next round pairings. If the players at board ten never reported their results, both players are not around ten minutes before the start of the next round. Will dig into the box of scoresheets, if I find the scoresheet of just one of the players, will use that as a way to deal with the pairings.
Would like it if the players reported the results, when it gets close to the next round, will use the returned scoresheet. If there is no returned scoresheets, will hold off the round till one of the players shows up. If they have held up the start of the round a number of minutes, will double forfeit both players. The tournament should not be held up because of the failing to report the results, failing to return the scoresheets, and failing to show up for the next round on time with important information.