Setting Analog Clocks

Sorry if this has been discussed previously. If I am running a tournament with some games at G/60, d/10 and other games at 40/110, SD/30, d/10, then how should I handle folks who show up with analog clocks? Do they simply lose the 10 second delay (which does not sound fair) or is there a standard accepted method of setting the clocks? It seems that this issue should be addressed somewhere in the USCF rule book, but I can’t find it.

Ron Sanders Jr.
Local TD
Little Rock, AR

Yes, they simply lose the ten second delay. If you want to have something else happen, you must publish it in all pre-event publicity as that would be a major variation.

Alex Relyea

I don’t think it’s unfair in any way. If they want the benefit of delay, all they have to do is invest in a capable clock. The digital clock with time delay is, after all, standard equipment.

They lose the delay. They are not using the most standard clocks, the digital clocks which have the delay feature. It is not necessary to change the time controls or add time to the analog clocks to compensate for the lack of delay. It is the burden they bear for not being up to date on the technology and the rules governing clock usage.

They are really going to be hurting when they hit SD/30 with no 10 second delay. You will likely have to use the rules for “insufficient losing chances” (16H) for games that come down to the last minutes. Clock bashing monkey time! :laughing:

It’s a given they lose the delay. I also recommend using Rule 14H6, which is a variation that needs no advance publicity: insufficient losing chances claims are not allowed. If they want to play clock-bashing monkey, let them.

Your customers with analog clocks need to be candidly told to buy a new clock. Clocks with delay have been standard for two decades now.

Mr. Sanders - First, you’ll probably want to consult USCF Rules 5F and 42 for information that may be helpful.

Second, when I am the chief TD for a tournament with a delay or increment control, my practice is to grant no adjustment for analog clocks - they just get the base time, and nothing else. I agree with the general concurrence of responses in this thread that seem to indicate those players with analog clocks need to update to digital.

That said…I should include the following caveat.

Most of my directing these days is done in larger tournaments, where players often pay $100+ for entry fee alone, and often have travel expenses as well. I have no sympathy for such players if they complain about the cost of a digital clock. Most booksellers at events I work have good digital clocks in the $40 range, and they can be found online for similar prices.

However, in smaller local events, I believe the local market should be considered. If there are a lot of players in your area (and you would determine what constitutes “a lot”) stubbornly holding on to their analogs, then a different approach may be in order. While I support converting all players to digital clocks, I would be careful about the tenor of my discussions with the analog faithful on the subject, particularly if you know it’s sensitive for them.

What I would tell them is that they probably want to avoid, at all costs, having the insufficient losing chances rules (USCF Rule 14H) invoked - which potentially puts the result of the game in the TD’s hands, rather than leaving it entirely up to the players, as it should be. I would also tell them that there are any examples of players with analog clocks who muck up winning positions just because they can’t physically make enough moves to hold the game - a problem that delay addresses.

Either way, good luck with your events. :slight_smile:

A few years ago a TD told me that the best way to set an analog clock is as close to the edge of the table as possible, in the hope that it falls off!

The old BHBs were pretty sturdy. So too, were some of the big plastic INSA clocks. Have seen one of the former bounce down a set of metal stairs and still keep on ticking as if nothing happened. Good luck with a digital clock taking a tumble off a table.

Also, some people may not realize that there are very affordable, good, digital clocks these days. One can find good clocks for $40, and there are some off brands for less that may be viable.

How would a game played with an analog clock in a G/25 d5 tournament be rated? G/25 d5 is dual rated according to rule 5C, but the game with the analog clock would be played at G/25, which is quick rated only, not dual rated.

In the example given in that section, it says:

Based on that, it would seem that if any game is being played at G/25 due to an analog clock, you’d have to drop all the other games to something faster than G/25 d5, such as G/25 d4 or G/24 d5, in order to have all the games be played at a quick-ratable only time control.

I suppose the simplest thing is to not try to use time controls where the base time is on one side of a rating category boundary, and the base time plus the delay or increment is on the other, so that this problem cannot arise.

Since the tournament or section is dual rated the G/25 game played with an analog clock would also be dual rated.

No, that is not correct. If the players using a clock that doesn’t fit the time control don’t have a minimum of 30 minutes each, it’s their tough luck. It’s the same as a game in a GAME/45 section, say, that starts without a clock and finishes in 30 seconds with a four move checkmate. That’s regular ratable, too.

Alex Relyea

I think what you really meant to say is: “but the game with the analog clock would be played at G/25 d0,” and that is simply not true! The time control for the tournament is G/25 d5, even if the players in a particular game both agree to use a clock that has no delay. (And note that it is a mutual agreement, since if either player has a working delay clock, he/she has the right to insist that a clock with delay be used. White’s right to a delay clock trumps the right that Black would ordinarily have to choose the clock.)

Bob

The announced time control is what matters, not how a specific (eg, analog) clock is set under that time control. Organizers who don’t want analog clocks in a G/25;d5 event to be set to 25 minutes (as per USCF rules) can stipulate in pre-event and on-site publicity and make announcements that analog clocks are to be set to G/30.

You’ve gotten several answers to this, but sometimes other examples can be useful either for you or when you are explaining it to someone else.

Suppose you had a section that was 40/2, 20/1, repeating indefinitely. Regular rated, right? Now suppose two players in that tournament section wanted to be done early, but didn’t want to agree to one of those phony draws - so they agreed to play the game G/20, d/5. How would that game be rated?

Their agreement is not relevant or binding upon the event. If either player makes a claim on time or any other claim where the time control and remaining time is relevant (eg, ILC), the TD will still rule based on the announced time control.

And if the TD sees that their clock is not set to the announced time control, the TD should correct it.

Analog still hold a certain amount of propriety and grace
for some. And some have very elegant, beautiful analog
clocks which they prefer to use. “clock-bashing monkey”
seems harsh. There are MANY who enjoy no time delay
or increment. To each their own.

Rob Jones

Sometimes TDs will make variances for individual games, such as games against house players to avoid byes or forfeits that start later and still need to finish on time. Such games are often listed in an extra games section without pre-announced time controls. Some might have been listed in the regular section.

Note that the variance is still determined by the TD and thus announced to the two players (just not loudly announced using a microphone).

I have gone so far as to have multiple extra rated games sections to handle this situation. One for regular ratable games and another for dual ratable games.

Alex Relyea

For scholastic tournaments I often have one for K-3 games that might need to be JTP and one for older players.