Should there be an age requirement for someone to even apply as a Club TD?
I don’t think so. I think an age requirement as artificial, and that there are better ways of accomplishing the same goal, that is keeping unqualified people from directing tournaments.
I’m sure that in your area, there are directors that most people won’t play for anymore, right? There’s also the suspensions list.
Do you disagree?
Alex Relyea
I have yet to find anyone who knows the last time a TD was suspended, I’m not sure that works as a means of culling out inadequate TDs.
There are 19 TDs listed as being under 15 years old, though 2 or 3 of those appear to be due to our having an incorrect birthdate on file.
That’s out of a total population of 1857 currently certified TDs.
I think having an age limit (of say 10) would not be unreasonable, though it is a bit artificial, as would be a ratings-based cutoff. (One of the best TDs I know is rated around 1100.)
I have been contemplating filing an ADM to change the club TD requirements. Currently a Club TD card is good for 3 years and is non-renewable. I’d change it to be good for just 2 years but would make it renewable, with an online signup form in the Members Only area. (That makes it much easier to get signed up quickly and takes a lot of the paperwork load off the USCF office in the process.)
However, I would also then have the office, ie the ratings programming, become somewhat more diligent about enforcing the 50 player limit on Club TDs.
Any Club TD who exceeds that limit more than twice as a chief or section chief TD would NOT be eligible to renew his or her club TD card and would have to take (and pass) the local TD exam in order to continue to be a certified TD.
That’s not really what the suspension list is for. Whatever the original intention, it has been used only to get rid of dishonest TDs. Failure to pay prizes, submitting phony tournaments, that sort of thing.
Merely bad TDs are dealt with by the market – people won’t play in their tournaments, and someone better moves in. (Well, in a few cases we’ve had to wait for the turkey to die of old age, but it all works out in the end.)
Would not have a problem if the USCF went back to a renewable club tournament director. Have noticed a number of club tournament directors that quit being a director, because they have to take the local tournament directors test. For a number of years, it has been on my mind for a tournament directors title between club and local. After being a club tournament director, can take the local tournament directors test or sign up for a different title of tournament director.
One of the reasons the club tournament director was change from non-renewable, players did not know how experienced the club tournament director was. For a number of tournament markets, there is little need even for a local tournament director. If there was a different title just above club and lower then local. There would be some willing to join the ranks then leave being a director.
There is only 21 revocations and suspensions of tournament director certification. If I am right, it was 1999 since anyone has been placed onto the list. The USCF should crack down on the directors, as I am also a player too.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. If you mean they should crack down on dishonest TDs, that requires that you find some dishonest TDs. Can you cite any complaints of this sort that have been filed but not acted upon? Or do you want to hang a few TDs pour encourager les autres?
If instead you mean the USCF should crack down on “merely incompetent” TDs – I don’t think that’s a very practical suggestion. What standard of performance? What standard of evidence? A single complaint from a disgruntled player? Would you fly players to Board meetings to testify, or send attorneys out to depose them? Leave it alone.
John’s quite right, sanctioning TDs as part of the enforcement of USCF rules can get tricky because of ‘due process’ issues. (And that can mean it gets expensive, too.)
However, having rules but NOT ENFORCING THEM is not a good situation, either.
And relying on an ‘up-or-out’ rule to weed out incompetent club TDs is rather lame.
Moreover, we have over 7500 former club TDs, many of whom sent in for the card but NEVER DIRECTED A SINGLE EVENT. Under the rule as it presently stands, if those individuals want to become certified again, they have to take the local exam, though they don’t have any directing experience.
Anything that can be done to reduce the paperwork would be great. For years, I have heard complaints from those who sent in Club TD applications and never heard back. Some of them just ended up directing anyway. Obviously, that won’t work anymore, now that TD checking is more stringent.
I’d make one slight change in your proposed ADM. A club TD who has actually met the experience requirements for local TD should not be able to renew his club TD certification – he should be required to take the local TD test. TDs who are actually using their certification should be required to prove they deserve it.
Or, to weaken the above just slightly, perhaps they should be allowed to renew as a club TD only once (after they have met the local TD experience requirements), or only if their club TD certification is about to expire (at the time they meet those requirements).
Bill Smythe
Bill, what I’d really like to see happen is to have the USCF reverse the current situation as well as take into account our new technology.
Rather than require inexperienced TDs to take a test they may not be ready for, we should not permit them to advance until they have sufficient experience, or perhaps impose a higher test score requirement for those who want to move up faster.
All things considered, I’d much rather have TDCC come up with revised rules than have the Delegates do it, but I expect serious resistance from TDCC to making any changes at all, including addressing some issues that the new online system has raised.
Here’s some of those issues: How to deal with the relationship between a ‘TD-for-hire’ and an out-of-town affiliate, or with non-certified people working in the backroom at events as computer technicians or data entry operators or who assist the TD with the online submission process. (I know one NTD who has an assistant upload his events for him, that assistant until recently wasn’t even a club TD.)
I was concerned that, if club TDs are allowed to renew indefinitely, directing zillions of tournaments without ever taking the test, we could end up with a lot of experienced, yet incompetent, TDs.
Bill Smythe
I don’t think it follows that there is a reverse relationship between experience & competence. If anything, a TD (at any level) becomes more competent with more experience or suffers repeatedly from lack of competence (trouble with result submissions, players staying away from his/her events, etc).
I don’t understand or appreciate the thinking behind the (entry level) Club TD being required to advance in level of directorship or cease to be able to direct tournaments. I think this is counter productive in trying to get people to take initiative in holding (small) tournaments. I suspect that the majority of people that become Club TDs do so because they want to make it possible for their small group of people (club, rural area, etc) to hold rated events. If they want to advance as a director and hold larger events, fine, but why make it impossible for them to continue to hold the little events they (and their group or area) want to have? If we’re going to make it a requirement to upgrade or cease directing, why not make the other levels a temporary stop in the requirement to make all TDs International Arbiters?
Why do we need to prevent experienced & competent Club TDs from continuing to direct small tournaments just because they’ve successfully done it for a couple of years and have no ambition to climb the TD ladder and direct larger events?
Tom
I guess that I just don’t think that it is that onerous of a burden to have people who want to continue to direct tournaments to have to pass SOME SORT of written test for competence.
Mike, am I understanding correctly that there are more than three times the number of expired club TDs than there are currently certified TDs at all levels? I find that amazing.
Perhaps a compromise between the current rules and allowing Club TDs to renew indefinitely without “accountability” would be an automatic extension of club TD status for one year upon petition so that the TD could complete the requirements to become a local TD.
Alex Relyea
There isn’t a written test required to become a Club TD. Just fill out the form saying you have a copy of the rules and will abide by them. Having obtained the Club TD card, and successfully directed a number of tournaments over a 3 year period, you are rewarded by being forced to qualify yourself to be able to direct larger tournaments than you have need or desire to direct.
Where is harm in allowing successful Club TDs continue to direct club level tournaments as long as they wish? Do we have too many active TDs & need to eliminate some of them or do we have clubs that don’t have rated events because they don’t have certified TDs?
Tom
There are a number of club directors not willing to take the written test. Not all club tournament directors will perform one event. Others will have one or a few events. For the first time director, if they had a poor budget, could cost the director out of pocket $100 - $250. There is more work being a director, then the average player understands. Not that many directors are willing to perform a second event, if they lost more money then they ever would dream.
When Nolan talked about going from a 3 year term, to a 2 year term for club tournament directors. Was a little shocked at the idea, now I do like it a little bit more. If the director has not had one event in 2 years, looks to be clear will not see one event in the next year. If it does drop down to 2 years, would make the club tournament director needing to get the experience for the local tournament directors test in 24 months then 36 months.
Do not like the idea of making the club tournament director being forced to take the local tournament directors test. If it is drop from 2 years from 3 years, the new local tournament director will only have 24 months of experience then 36 months.
I could see where a club TD operating in a remote area with a relatively closed pool of players could end up being ignorant of some basic procedure, and end up with a pool of players with skewed ratings, or some fundamental misunderstanding of the rules. You do want uniformity in how tournaments are being run all across the nation.
The club TD may be perfectly successful and his players might be perfectly happy with their tournaments, yet the TD is not quite competent. Making him/her take the open book Local TD test after three years might address that issue, particularly if that test isn’t too hard.
Did you ever have to read “rules of the road” years after getting your driver’s license? Didn’t you learn a couple of things you didn’t know?
What standard of evidence.
- Sending in late events, with late events of more then 180 days being grounds for an inquiry.
- Failing to send in memberships, or sending in late memberships.
- Failing to give our guaranteed prize money.
- Sending in events with a expired affiliate or no affiliate.
As a director, having the USCF staff working on fixing problems of other directors – would make my events sent in on time and in order take longer to be done by the USCF staff. I do send in my events online and memberships online. If I do need to send in a email or call the rating department, or the membership department. The reason I cannot talk to the staff member, as the staff member can be on the phone talking to people why some director did not send in the tournament or the membership.
The staff only has a 40 hour work week, if they are on the phone for hours just to take care of upset membership why a event was not sent in or rated. Then they have less time to work on events being sent in on time and in order. Or have the free time to take care of other duties like the supplement, and other duties that we have little understand with the day to day activity of the rating department.
If you want to make the rating department and membership department work better, start to crack down on dead beat directors.
My perception of the club TD level is for people who want to direct to get their feet wet, as it were. If they decide that they like directing tournaments, then they should take the test and get a local certification. Does anyone think that this test is an onerous burden?
I know of a TD in my area who really should take the local test. He easily has the experience requirements, but he can never put aside the time to take the test. It comes down to how long we want people directing tournaments without ever having shown that they understand and can follow even the most basic rules.
I guess what I am saying is that I consider club TD status probationary, so that people can have “on the job” training before becoming a local TD. I don’t have any problem with that, and I really don’t understand why a successful club TD wouldn’t want to take the local test, even if he’ll only continue to direct the local quads.
Alex Relyea
Players want uniformity across the nation. Not all players are willing to drive across the nation, or more then 100 miles from home. Club directors are the core of local events in the nation. Have been pushing some of my best club players to go to other events then mine. Want them to come to my events, but feel they should travel just to get the experience of larger events, or experience of other tournament sites of my size. At this time it has been zero, but the balk of the club players are still provisional.
With a director, 1. poor understanding of the rules,
- ignorant of basic procedures,
- small and closed pool of players.
If in small areas of the nation, if the director is poor it will also make poor members. If the members become poor, as they started out with a poor direcotor in the first place. It could make a conflict with two different standards at a larger event. If you play blitz chess as much as myself, will find how the rules are so different and strange to each other. Even if they quote the same blitz rules. It can be the same problem if a poor director had the first impression on a provisional player.
I want myself to go to other tournaments then myself, not so much how the rules are performed. But how the standards of managment of the event is different then my own. I want my club players to go to other events then my own, just seeing the different managment style performed.
Its’ not so much the poor director having poor rules. As there are a number of events the director will not have to make a ruling. Even if the director had to make a ruling, not all the players will see or understand there was a ruling performed. What the players will learn going to a event, is the managment style of the director. The temperment of the director, the social skills of the director.
If the director of any certification is in a small rural area of the nation, the managment style, the temperment of the director, and the social skills will be inprinted onto the players. Even in Michigan, can see the small difference of the players temperment, social skills, managment skills how a event should be performed. Talking to other players, from different areas they have different frame of mind. Having a very active director, will have an inpact of the temperment, social skills and managment skills of the players. Again, the director has to learn these skills from the area also.
Having a director with poor understanding of the rules, poor understand of any management skills, with a poor temperment as a director and player. It will pass onto the players in time. With the quote on the top, it can be placed onto anyone.
Are the rules uniformed - yes. Are the rules uniformed with the same temperment, same social skills, same managment skills - no.
Alex:
For a number of club tournament directors, they only want to be a director for a category D event. Even if you go to a number of states, they only have very few category C events. Some states only have the category C event once in a few years. When talking to a number of expired club tournament directors, the reason they did not want to take the test, as they would not use the title of local tournament director in its’ proper form.
The only reason for myself taking the test back in 1997, did have a feeling I could have more then 50 entries. Just to be safe, did take the test so nobody in the rating department would have a problem rating the event. Did get word in 1997, the USCF was going to make all the club tournament directors need to take the test for local. That did not become official till 1999.
The only reason why the club tournament directors are forced to take the local test. Its’ just to weed out directors that have little drive to be a director. Its’ not the experience to become a local director, its’ the drive to be a local director.