No one said graduation rates affect eligibility. If it turns out that a student has graduated, that could affect eligibility.
It also appears that the eligibility rules, and Rule 6, used in the Pan-Am, which is both US Chess and FIDE sanctioned, are the norm for most college chess in the US. For example, the Texas Collegiate Championship utilizes the Pan-Am rules found on the UT web site as quoted and linked above.
And that would be because those folks all got together to set those rules. So since they had a roll in stetting them, they follow those rules for their own events. But there is no central body overseeing that.
Allen nails it, Brian. College chess in the US is essentially run by - college chess. They set their own rules long ago. They don’t maintain records (why would they?) Not all schools awarding scholarships are doing so with the intent of competing in the Pan Am (nor are they doing so) – I know since I helped to create some of those scholarships.
I haven’t been as active in college chess for a few years, and haven’t been on the board of a college for awhile. But I know enough about the background to know that the information you are looking for is unlikely to exist. Perhaps it exists sporadically on a college-by-college case-by-case basis. But again, please just ratchet down the attitude. Yes, the newcomer to the party can have fresh ideas and shift paradigms. That doesn’t mean that those who have been at the party for awhile are idiots undeserving of a little respect. Instead of hammering people with information intended to show why you are right and why such information MUST exist, why not just say “The college rules would have made me think that this information is collected. If so, why isn’t it available?” The answer - its collected for eligibility purposes, but not saved. Accept and acknowledge your limits and move on.
Unlikely to reside with US Chess, but it likely does reside in the scholarship offices of any university granting scholarships. It’s required by the NCAA which Rule 6 of the Pan-Am rules follows. It’s also just good business practice if you grant scholarships. The universities have the data contra Kevin’s assertion, “I’d be surprised if you can find any significant statistical information on the graduation rates of college students who received chess scholarships.” [Emphasis added] It’s there to be found, particularly at public universities.
When Kevin makes an inaccurate statement and is called on it, that’s his problem, not mine. Do you want to suggest to him that he accept his limits and move on, or shall I.
I recall a Star Trek TOS episode called “The Ultimate Computer”. At the end of the episode, Spock and McCoy had this conversation:
Somehow the post referenced below brought that conversation to mind.
First, Brian, let’s clarify: are you asserting that college chess is subject to the NCAA? Because if not, then your comment:
would be just nonsense. There would be no reason for a scholarship office to follow an NCAA rule which does not apply - so I have to assume that you are asserting that chess is covered by the NCAA. Right?
Second, your quote:
Is nonsensical and misrepresents what I said.
I never claimed that colleges or universities don’t have any information on grades and scholarships. That would be absurd. For you to assert that colleges have this information is not a revelation, rather it is acutely trivial. OF COURSE they have the information. These are recorded events. Colleges and universities record grades and scholarships.
This was never in question.What is in question is whether such information is readily and freely available, that is, has it been collected, compiled and published?
If not, then it will be difficult to “… find any significant statistical information on the graduation rates of college students who received chess scholarships.”
It will be difficult because outside of the college, no one will have an easy ability to search through private records to collect and compile such information. But certainly, we’ve seen no one with such information. We’ve seen no one even assert the existence of such collected, compiled and published information. We’ve seen no such information.
Your assertion “It’s also just good business practice if you grant scholarships.” is also nonsensical. IN GENERAL, in business (and in chess) it is a waste of resource to spend resource on an endeavor/plan that provides less benefit than another endeavor/plan. Given the very small number of people who would be impacted or influenced by such information, its difficult to argue that spending the time and effort to collect, compile and publish this information would be the highest and best use of such resource.
Finally, as you should now be able to see (since its been conclusively demonstrated), I did not make an inaccurate statement - only your (mis)representation of it was inaccurate. Consequently, you haven’t called me on it.
However, by continuing to demonstrate a negative attitude about the topic and simultaneously make statements which are unsupported, you have provided a torrential flood of illogic which has been most entertaining.
Oh. Well in that case, to demonstrate that my statement is inaccurate - please produce the significant statistical information you found on the graduation rates of college students who received chess scholarships.
Alternatively, you can recognize that without the production of such proof, my statement stands as accurate.
Nope. Kevin, if you like, you can contact all the colleges/universities granting chess scholarships and ask them to what extent they maintain records, or don’t, in accordance with Rule 6. If they respond substantively, you can produce their responses here.
The College Chess Committee might have such data, but I doubt it. There is a list of committee members that can be contacted. Information on college chess and its history is sparse. Collegechess.org has a collection of articles, but provides little relevant information about college chess history or administration. The USCF and the rest of the chess world is generally poor at keeping records of anything. While collecting chess memorabilia can be interesting, trawling through chess records is a thankless task given how little information is stored. For example, there was once a Western PA Intercollegiate Chess League that functioned for a number of years, but try to find out anything about it. It exists only in the memories of a few of the players. No one that I know of wrote anything down about it and kept the records of who was in the League or who won it.
The NCAA has records of the graduation rates of athletes and non-athletes that are compiled for Division I schools. There are three metrics used to measure the graduation rates, but since chess is not a sport in the NCAA, the graduation rates for those receiving chess scholarships will be folded in with all students. There is also some question whether schools are reporting graduation rates correctly. You can also question what importance graduation rate means when students can transfer in and out, go “pro”, or enter graduate programs. Since the NCAA maintains that its athletes remain “amateurs,” the ability of chess players to earn money through prizes and other means makes it interesting to determine how chess even would fit in an NCAA regulated environment.
Only individual schools are likely to keep any semblance of records. You would think they would want to in order to promote their program success. They might not do so because they are not required to under NCAA rules because, once again, the NCAA does not list chess as a sport. There is a federal law, the “Student Right to Know Act” that might require some type of reporting, but wading through federal legislation is a time consuming task and would probably not lead to sources of significant data.
In other words, I’ve found and shown you a Pan Am Chess Championship chess scholarship record keeping requirement that 40+ universities have subscribed to in order to qualify for entry into the Pan-Am with evidence that it is also used in non-Pan-Am tournaments like the Texas state collegiate championships. Contact them yourself and let us know how many respond that they don’t maintain such records.